Fanless power supply?

[steve_g]

I'm on my 4th Bot control computer in the last 7 years... This last one has lasted the majority of that time. What I did to make my computers last longer in my dusty environment was to build my computer with components sitting naked under the shop desk lid... no case, and easy to blow out the dust every day.

This AM I was greeted with a ball of flame when I turned on my computer... to make a long story short, even though I had faithfully blown out the dust in the power supply, the fan bearings froze up...

The question I have is...

I purchased a pricey "industrial" fanless powersupply. Does anyone have any experience with one of these? My shop can get very hot in the Texas summer heat and I'm concerned that ambient temperature + the heat it generates will be more than it can dissipate. Any thoughts?

SG

[myxpykalix]

Is this something you could use?
http://www.xoxide.com/watcoolcas1.html?location=topnav

water cooled..:eek:

[adrianm]

That's why I run small form factor PC's on the 'bot as they have external power supplies (like a large laptop transformer) rather than a built-in PSU with a big fan.

[dlcw]

That's why I run small form factor PC's on the 'bot as they have external power supplies (like a large laptop transformer) rather than a built-in PSU with a big fan.

Adrian, my small brain doesn't understand the term "small form factor PC". What is that? Sounds interesting.

[steve_g]

It looks like I can buy a small form factor PC for not much more than I paid for the fanless power supply. I'm rethinking this...

SG

http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/fanless_computers

[coryatjohn]

Maybe you could squeeze that fanless computer into your controller box. That would be a cool solution.

[adrianm]

Adrian, my small brain doesn't understand the term "small form factor PC". What is that? Sounds interesting.

Basically it's a normal PC but in a very small box, most are designed for use in living rooms so they have no fans at all to keep the noise down.

They have very limited space for expansion cards (if any at all) but that's not usually an issue as a 'bot controller.

The one I use at the moment is a Dell Optiplex SFF but I used to run a Shuttle which is tiny.

[steve_g]

Well... I'm finally back up and running after my computer cratered. My surmise that the power supply was the issue was wrong... At least after the "big bang" there were more issues than just the power supply. I was intrigued by Adrian's solution that has the power supply as a separate "brick" remote from the computer. The link below is what I went with.
http://www.frys.com/product/7578696?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (http://www.frys.com/product/7578696?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)

Not included in the price is a solid state hard disk drive, memory, a power cord and the operating system.

This tiny computer is powerful! It boots up windows 7 pro in less than 15 seconds. Since the target market for this computer is running digital billboards, it only has HDMI outputs. If all you have is an old VGA display, this will be an additional expense.

Since this was a clean install I decided to up grade to the latest control software... I basically had a good install experience. Some strange or unexpected results can likely be attributed to "old man syndrome". You have to read the messages carefully... However It was unclear to me whether I should choose the PRT or PRS option since my PRT has the upgraded 2XX controller. Also if there is a way to get an Icon to Zero my second Z (A axis) I haven't found it yet. Initial cuts in Medex seem to be smoother though.

Tomorrow will involve an 8 hour 3D run for a mirror frame, this will surely test the new hardware and software!

SG

[Joseph clements]

What was total price $

[steve_g]

Joseph...

Bare bones box......................................... $179.00
4 gig of memory (SODIM)........................... $ 35.00
64 gig MSATA Solid State HDD ................ $ 75.00
OEM Windows 8 (had I needed it) ............. $ 99.00
HD display with HDMI input ........................ $199.00

My Bare Bones box has the Celeron CPU which is more than adequate to run the Bot... I use it as a dedicated machine and don't try to do any design work on it. You can get it all the way up to an i7 processer.

This version of the NUC box can run up to 16 gig of laptop type (SODIM) memory..... 4 is great for running the ShopBot.

I don't save my jobs on the control computer, but down load them from a mirrored 1 terabyte network drive, so a small HDD works for me. The 64 gig HDD is half full after loading the operating system! The MSATA drives that this system requires are a newer wrinkle in storage and were hard for me to get my hands on locally. I have a lot of wholesale and retail suppliers available to me in the Dallas area and it still took me the better part of a day to physically get my hands on the solid state drive. The price I paid was more per gig than I should have paid... but that supplier knew what a MSATA drive was and had one in stock.

I reused my operating system license from the old computer... A 64 bit version of Windows 7 Pro. If I had bought a new operating system I would have bought the OEM version of Win 8.

The output of this box is HDMI... This means that the sound is incorporated in the video output. If you want sound, you need a display with the speakers built in. A 1080P HD TV works great and there are lots of options under $200.00.

I hope this gives you an idea of what a system to run the bot will cost... A lot depends on what you might happen to have already and how you plan to use the system. I personally have less than $300.00 in the system but it could have gone close to $1000.00 had I chosen other options.

A side note... the wireless module is not included and I didn't price it. My experience with wireless mice and keyboards is less than satisfactory.

SG

[Joseph clements]

Thanks Steve, I live in Houston Texas With a 4x8 alpha, I use a dell pc
An it dose not like to be outside in the heat. Keep me updated on how
It works out for you

[catbourger]

Steve,

How well does your computer do on the speedtest. And does it benefit by having an active USB hub as well?

Karl

[Bob Eustace]

Steve dead keen on your idea! My dream would be for Shopbot to ship these boxes "turn key" to avoid all the hassles! Looked at this video on setting one up.

http://youtu.be/TKsYyXa_03o

Looks like it is not sealed as the guy mentions air vents at the front. With only 3 USB ports how are you running , keyboard, mouse, SB3 and spindle and how are you dumping the files to the box. Sorry for all the questions!

[steve_g]

Karl... I couldn't get the speed test to run... My understanding is that it's not a valid test for the latest version of SB3. I didn't use a hub as I also understand that the latest controller cards (2XX) don't want one. This information is stuff I picked up off the forum but I couldn't find definitive information from ShopBot... I think a call to support may be in order.

Bob... Thanks for the link to the video... It confirmed my experience exactly! I also was irritated that no power cord was included and I had to rob one to continue the build. The little "chime" when you open the box disgusted me and I would rather have paid a dollar less and forgone the gimmick. The NUC is not "fanless" as I first understood. There is no power supply fan or case fan, just a CPU fan. The amount of air moved is imperceptible but I have decided to supply forced filtered air into the area where my computer is housed. I'm doing this with a 110V AC 4" box fan pulling air through filter foam.

I'm bringing data into the computer through the Ethernet connection from my NAS drive (network aware storage) My practice is to copy a file to the desktop, run it and delete it. I keep all files... design and toolpaths on the NAS drive as it's the one reliably backed up (it's mirrored)

Of my three USB ports, I have a hub on one with all peripherals (wired mouse and keyboard). One dedicated to the ShopBot and one free. I don't have a spindle so speed control isn't an issue. If I were using a jump drive to bring files in I would have an extension cable from my free port or the hub to my (physical) desktop to plug it into easily.

Yesterday was a full day of routing with the new computer and the latest version of SB3... All went well except for an initial Z-Zero failure. The bit touched the plate, retracted and gave me a message that the zeroing had failed. ????

Yesterdays main project was a 3D mirror frame. This was the second of a pair and is noticeably smoother than the first pre- latest SB3 one. To be completely up front... while I was waiting on some components to arrive I did do some routine maintenance on the bot.

SG

[Bob Eustace]

Thanks Steve. Please keep posting your progress. On the zero fails I never had this till 3.8.6. Does the first pass OK but on the second it freezes once it touches the plate. Seems to be very sensitive. Cure is to clean plate, clip and also where you clamp it.

[ron_moorehead]

If your looking for a true fan less PC, look at ones they install in cars, like on this web site:

http://www.mini-box.com/Complete-CarPC-Systems

It's easy to find a 120 vac to 12 vdc power supply and the PC power supply is designed for a wide flux of 12 vdc input.

[steve_g]

Hi Ron... I didn't talk to the folks your link points to but I did spend quite a bit of time on the phone with the folks in the link I gave in message #5 of this thread... What it basically boiled down to was: with a dusty environment and high shop temperatures I would need their "Industrial" Version starting at $1200.00.

My thinking with the NUC with its very small footprint (4" X 4") was that if it can't handle the heat I'd add a Peltier thermoelectric cooling module. Also my thinking was that since the NUC target market was the digital billboard audience it should be able to handle high ambient temperatures!

Time will tell if my thinking is flawed, but right now (after one day of service) I'm happy!

SG

[srwtlc]

I've been thinking of doing a build with one of these NUC's also and doing a bunch of testing with it and the bot, but I'm holding out for the next versions that will use the new Haswell chip (which is supposed to run cooler), the option of a passive cooling enclosure, and a SATA connector for a conventional hard drive. Yeah, the fast boot of the Solid State drives is nice, but I'd rather have some storage space instead of a quick boot. Not real confident on longevity of SSD's for Bot use.

[srwtlc]

Just watched that video.... Do ya think he thinks that Intel not including a power cord is stupid? Indeed STUPID! And a jingle when you open the box...really!? :rolleyes:

[ron_moorehead]

I guess the real question is why is your shop so dusty. I have been running my ShopBot over 5 years now with two computers in the room both are ITX mother boards and about once a year I open them up and blow the dust out, they never seem to be to bad. I leave both computer on 24/7. I cut MDF a lot which seem to be the worst for dust. Never had a problem with the computers over heating an din the summer my shop gets up to 80 deg on a normal day with all the equipment running. Should I be concerned?

I love the video, no power cord what are we coming to.

[steve_g]

"I guess the real question is why is your shop so dusty"


Guilty as charged...
In the summer in Texas we often don't see 80° for the overnight low! 100+ is par for the Course. My excellent Oneida dust collector seems to add considerably to the heat and often isn't run for that reason... and that I dislike the noise! I spend most of my "shop" time in the house drawing and watching the Bot on a IP web cam and so can get away with a dustier environment than would be healthy to work in.

SG

[Bob Eustace]

Steve I've had an SSD in a high end music keyboard for 7 years without a hic-up. Music doesnt have the massive number of lines the bot has BUT the exact timing is super critical.

[rcnewcomb]

Have you considered a dirtbag (http://dirtbag.biz/covers/tower.html) computer cover or its equivalent?
http://dirtbag.biz/images/computer_cover/dirtbag_computer_dust_tower_protector.jpg

[steve_g]

Randall...
That's just too simple... Actually not a bad idea even for office computers!

SG

[catbourger]

I just bought the PC, memory solid state hard disk, and monitor that Steve Glasser recommended in July. It works great!! It scores 74.5 on the speedtest. It comes with a VESA adapter that allows you to put the 4 x 4 x 1.5 inch PC behind the monitor!! So I would like to make a stand for the monitor, keyboard and mouse that is attached to the ceiling with a gooseneck that can move it out of the way when required. Has anyone made such a rig? Pictures, please.

Karl

[steve_g]

Karl...


"attached to the ceiling with a gooseneck"

Sounds interesting! Can't wait to see what you come up with!
My unit is under the lid of my desk, out of the dust. I would remind you that the little bugger isn't completely sealed and the CPU does have ventilation slots.

I'd like to say that my unit made it through the Texas summer heat with flying colors! I'm anticipating many trouble free years of service from it.

SG

[Shane]

I love my SSD laptop. Boots up in mere seconds and I know it won't be sucking in all the dust due to being a fanless drive.

Shane.