Making Money with Your shop bot

[genek]

This week Tina and I have been in the Smoky Mountains area (Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge area) Yesterday we took the art and craft loop out of Gatlinburg. While stopping at shops we went into a Wooden sign shop. Turns out the Gentelman that runs the shop owns a shop bot Desk top, He (Mark) and His wife are almost maxed out Making signs with the desk top, and are running behind on orders (this can be good or Bad). while touring Gatlinburg, we found three other sign compaines doing the same type of signs. all four shops are within 5 miles or less (did not check Mileage.) of each other. Mark has signs in at least two other shops that we visited.

what I am getting at is that if you do good work and have places to sale your product you can make a living with your shop bot. Something else I noticed is that the items that we make are almost void here in this area of Tenn. If there is a void here then that tells me there are many voids in Tenn alone. Talking to shops here I have been asked by at least 7 stores to send them a catalog. The shops varried from toy stores to wine shops.

Huge void in the wine shops for wine items and for wine related items.

some of the toys that we make we found some making them by hand and not near as good a design as ours.

was supprised by the need in this area for wooden items in all fields.

there is only one furniture maker in the area at this time... and talking to him he is 6 months back logged.

The shop botters in Tenn. need to make trips to this area.

by the way Marks signs are out of this world. when I get back to the shop will ask Mark if I can use his shop name and if full name and if I can show pictures of his work.

by the way.. He is wanting to Move his shop to Floridia and is planning to start setting up customers there to help him get ahead of the game and to be able to move.

what he does and The things we offer for sale will go good in any area.

there is big bucks to be made with your shop bot. You just need to get out there and develope customers.

If you get a chance to visit Gatlingburg Tenn. from Pigeon Forge take a left at light 3 then take a left at light 3a follow that around the loop Marks store front is just past Jim Gray's Gallery (old church)
stop in and look at his work.

[GlenP]

Can you share his (Mark)'s name and or business and website. Nice to hear of shopbotters making money and doing well. Love to see his work.

Cheers all,

[myxpykalix]

We built a Wildlife Sanctuary in Sevierville (just off the highway) on the road to Pidgeon Forge. There are TONS of tourist shops for almost anything you can think of there. All kinds of activities too. From Helicopter rides to indoor skydiving to Mideavil shows. Lots of signs and kinck knack souvenier shops, art stuff but i don't remember a lot of wood products...

[genek]

I had copied and pasted my comments about Mark so he would know what My comments were Here is Marks remarks about my comment. I had not mentioned his wife (actually I had forgotten to Mention that Mark now does the store and maintains the web site etc.

Hello Gene,
Thank you for the kind words about our signs but I must say that you didn't give enough credit to my wife Ksenia. When all of this started it was mostly me but she has come around to be equally as important as I am in this business. We have grown to the level that keeps me busy doing administrative work to the point I rarely even see the workshop part any more. As I mentioned in the store, she is the one making most of the signs now. I do the majority of the design work but the execution is all her. We couldn't did this without on another.
In any event, Thank you again. I will be waiting for your catalog like a kid on Christmas Eve! LOL. So Hurry Up already! Hahahahahahahaha. Just kidding. It was great to meet you and your wife Tina. I hope we can see you guys again and if you come back to town please let me know in advance and we can all go out to dinner!

Mark and His wife Have a good business, A husband and wife team is a great way to build the company or parent-child. I know if Tina and I had children I would be having our children be part of the company. It is a great way to build a company plus help provide a income for ones children and grandchildren.

Most of the product that I make and sale are not well know away from my area and my customers which helps in new markets. Like I said if you have a good product you can make a good living with your shop bot. It takes hard work both in the shop and out meeting new customers and developing new markets.

The work that Mark and His wife do. is great work. They could set up almost anywhere and do good.

Take a tour of your town and the surrounding towns, How many gift stores are there in your area. How many state Parks, places where people from other areas come in to visit.
I do not like dealing with the general public for several reasons, one I have PTSD (post traumatic stress) We do some shows each year to pick up new wholesale accounts, however if it was not for Tina helping and allowing me to walk around and to get out of the crowd I could not do the shows. The other sometimes I take it very offensive for someone to try to talk me down on prices which I do not drop my prices, or have someone to tell me (oh I can make that) Most will never try it some will, some will try to copy my work, Most will fall to the way-side and never impact my customer base. Having a good customer base will keep you busy. keeping your customer satisfied and always delivering when you say you will and good quality work will keep customers loyal to you. I have had customers go to cheaper suppliers, only to return. Most tell me the product was cheaper but not as good and that they did not deliver when they said the would. I have had a few come back asking me to lower my price to the other companies prices, and I simply say no. I base my prices on what I have to have to make a living.

I have lost a few over the years for not lowering my prices but most return after a while.

Each area is Different and also alike at the same time. Develop your area first then slowly expand. one person can not do it all. (at first you can) takes at least two, you and a employee or wife etc. as it grows.

go to Marks web site and check out his products

www.someguyssigns.com

Should you visit the area go see Mark and His wife

"Some Guys" Wood Signs & Crafts
680 Glades Rd. Suite 1
Gatlinburg, TN 37738

[adrianm]

I hope they got permission to use the clipart that way. It's definitely against the standard license agreement as far as I'm aware.

[jhedlund58]

@Adrian please explain

As we are getting back into this copyrite issue that no one seems to have a comprehensive answer for. he is not selling the vectors themselves, just using them as intended. should he be giving credit to the designer as a form of advertisement. something like designs from vectricart AND made by shopbot cnc.

I noticed that vectric patterns and the vectorart used to say that u can use patterns 2000 times and sometime ago went to unlimited use. they do or did have a clause about mass production. I do not think this is what happening here. why do we buy patterns if we cant use them. when I started u could list vectrics patterns in web page even if u did not own them... yet.

I can be wrong and have been many times in my life... u can ask my wife and probably many on this forum!!!

[genek]

Pattern usage can be limited .. You can state in your pattens that you can only use them so many times. I see this from time to time, however that is a honor system. When i designed our patterns for sale. I state that they can be used for private wholesale and retail and as many as they like. The only thing that i did state was that they could not sale or ive my patterns away.. They are copyrighted. I want my customers to use the pattens to make money with them. If they make one or a million i don't mind.. The only thing i do mind is if they sale them or give them away. That is when one gets into trouble.

Most people do not know how much it cost to produce a cd of patterns, the way that i set up our package, where you could work off the disk or down load the patterns, just the soft ware to put those buttons on the cd cost over $5,000.00 plus other software needed. I could not afford the soft ware, to produce our cd, so i have to hire that done. Having a master produced is expensive. With our sales we still have not broken even on the first cd, and i have disk two, three, almost ready to go to the company but i have to wait until i have sold enough to break even on the first one before i sink more into it.. So copyright is a big issue to most.. It is hard work and expensive just to produce the master.

[adrianm]

Jeff, it's not the use of the clipart in the actual products that I think is wrong. As far as I know there's no limitation on what you do with the 2D images as far as making products go.

It's pages like this one - http://www.someguyssigns.com/FarmandRanch.html

Click on any of the thumbnails and you get a very large version that could be traced into a vector in seconds. To me that is against the electronic distribution clause of the license agreement and is certainly something I wouldn't risk on a website.

[jhedlund58]

@Eugene I agree totally, but still i don't see anything wrong with what this person is doing... and if he is .. so am i. I am a professional hobbyist and not store front or wholesaler. not that it should make a difference. i purchase patterns with the intent of selling signs using them. And i am a lot cheaper than most.... ahhhhh competition is a great thing.

i hope u make a profit on your cd's.

[jhedlund58]

Adrian... i see better now what your point is... whats your answer.. a watermark or something. i did not see at first how easy it wood be to pirate said patterns with snipping tool or something from his site. I guess i don't recognize the patterns.. and wood not be sure they were not freeware or created himself. With the software available today, u can re-invent the wheel and make it work for your purposes from memory, sketch or a picture.

Just me.... totally confused retired guy. Gosh hope i don't get in trouble for emulating jack nickalaus swing on golf course... i sure he never used the foot wedge.... i do, but take a club out of bag to compensate.

[genek]

What you refer to might be a problem however the person copying the clip art would be in trouble also. You have to watch free clip art. Most who use clip art do not read the conditions and license agreement. I personnel do not use clip art that i do not buy... Why spend time cleaning it up when i can buy it ready to go.

Copyright laws are hard to understand, that is why i hired a copyright attorney, to protect my rights. It is a great gray area for most...

[jhedlund58]

I don't use anything I don't buy or make myself either as I don't feel like I truly understand this issue after too many hours spent trying to understand. better safe than sorry in my book. I don't live in grey areas.

I hope mark doesn't go to jail... I doubt it

[genek]

They do not put you in jail for this. First they have to send you a cease and assist order, not sure if this is wrong he may have permission and he may own them as the designer I have no clue.

[jhedlund58]

Good thing.. for a minute there, I thought mark and I were gonna b cell mates... I still don't see anything this man is doing wrong... wonder why I don't have a web page.... word of mouth best advertising.. and it is FREE. still do more custom cabinets, drawers, screen door and window reproduction than anything.... am getting ready to make a little boy a wagon... he is 2 months old and his dad is in music industry. sides are gonna look like a guitar and the stem and handle a fretboard and headstock

love my shopbot, aspire software

[SomeGuys2007]

I am brand new to this forum and this particular post relates to mine and my wife's business. We always welcome criticism be it destructive or constructive, but it is beyond me that after a i viewed the stats on our website today and found that at least 70 people have been to our site as a result of Gene's post, that the only thing I have seen are comments to the legality of posting some of the clipart that we offer our customers. This, mind you is clipart that we purchased legally with US dollars from ShopBot tools directly. I am a little disappointed that I see no comments about the quality or lack of quality in our work with the exception of Gene's original post. Wow! I am truly amazed!

[gc3]

it's a forum...good or bad enjoy it :cool:

new guys always get bashed

in a year or... when your works go 10 fold in design and execution it'll be your turn to critique...

[Simops]

Interesting Welcome for Mark!!:confused:

Never-the-less welcome to the Forum Mark. Making signs is an art form....kudos to you and the other sign makers on this site!

Cheers

[wayne_walker]

Welcome to the forum,

I just looked at your site and you have the design, creative art, and ability to produce a very nice product.

I like how you and your wife select the colors that provide the right accent to the sign, well done.

Wayne

[adrianm]

Mark, I'm not disputing that you paid for that clipart but are you 100% sure you're allowed to display it on the website like that?

You almost certainly have a license to use it for making products not for digital distribution.

Not having a go at you. It's a mixture of not wanting you to get into trouble for something you didn't know about and wanting people to realise what you can and can't do with digital products.

As someone who has seen his own digital work pirated over and over again it's something I'm particularly sensitive to. I do realise that it's ignorance of the license agreements rather than anything malicious that causes the problems but the end result to the guy trying to make money out of the digital goods is often the same.

[myxpykalix]

This is why i stay out of these "opinions"...
Because like they say... "Opinions are like A**holes, everyone has one, and most of them stink":eek::D

Years ago we built a wildlife park in Sevierville and i'm pretty sure i probably have seen your work when we would go to pidgeon forge, gatlinburg area. It was a huge tourist area there, you definitely do great work so keep it up!:)

[SomeGuys2007]

Welcome to the forum,

I just looked at your site and you have the design, creative art, and ability to produce a very nice product.

I like how you and your wife select the colors that provide the right accent to the sign, well done.

Wayne

Thank you Wayne. Much appreciated!:)

[Chuck Keysor]

Mark, perhaps of greater significance to me as a viewer of your website, was the amazingly SLOW load time I had to endure to look at any image on your site. The load time for every image and page I clicked on was agonizingly slow.

I have only run into that with one website, and it turned out their website was constructed from one of those "make your own website for free" deals. Maybe this was a temporary glitch with your site. Maybe that is not the feedback you were looking for, but that matter dominated my "experience" as I visited your otherwise nice site.

Chuck

[SomeGuys2007]

I don't use anything I don't buy or make myself either as I don't feel like I truly understand this issue after too many hours spent trying to understand. better safe than sorry in my book. I don't live in grey areas.

I hope mark doesn't go to jail... I doubt it

Doubt that jail is in my future! If... and I mean if I am breaking the law I will receive a warning to stop offering my clipart in such a manner. Nothing more. I will however contact "Vector art" so as to be 100% sure of this.

[SomeGuys2007]

Mark, perhaps of greater significance to me as a viewer of your website, was the amazingly SLOW load time I had to endure to look at any image on your site. The load time for every image and page I clicked on was agonizingly slow.

I have only run into that with one website, and it turned out their website was constructed from one of those "make your own website for free" deals. Maybe this was a temporary glitch with your site. Maybe that is not the feedback you were looking for, but that matter dominated my "experience" as I visited your otherwise nice site.

Chuck

No Chuck, You are correct. This is a make your own website and I have heard this a couple of times now. I have a business class connection and it loads fast but at home I see the same thing you mentioned. Slow loading images :mad: Thanks for the input regardless and we accept all opinions be they bad or good! :)

[chiloquinruss]

I looked also and it is the size of your pix. Make them thumb nails and then link to an image folder for bigger pix. Should speed it up a lot. Great stuff shown on your site. Very cool projects! Russ

[SomeGuys2007]

Ok everyone,
In the interest of putting this whole "Clipart" mess to bed, I wrote Vector Art and now I will share the entire exchange.

"To whom it may concern,
I have a wood sign business and on my website I offer a variety of clipart images that can be added to our customer's signs from you book "Vector Art Mega Collection 1" The images that we offer are in .jpg format for our customers to view and now a friend of mine has raised questions as to the legality of doing things in this manner. Can someone please go to our link and see this for your selves so as to let me know if I am indeed breaking the law or if this is legal the way I am displaying these images. The link to our sit is: http://www.someguyssigns.com/ClipartCategoryPage.html

Thank you for your attention in this matter and if you would please respond with an answer as soon as possible it would be greatly appreciated. If you find that I am illegally using your material you will have my full cooperation in this matter and I will remove it from our site as soon as possible.

Regards,
Mark & Oksana Huninghake
(865) 712-2660
www.someguyssigns.com"

Here is what they responded:

Hi,

Thank you for your inquiry. We would not require you to remove anything from your web site; however, it may be necessary for you to add "water marks" to the images. I can have that answer to you in 10-15 days. Thank you for your patience.

Marie Holmes
Vector Art
Operations Manager

If the kind people at Vector Art decide I will need to add "Water Marks" then I will obviously comply. Let this serve as info to all that have websites offering clipart from Vector Art!

[SomeGuys2007]

I looked also and it is the size of your pix. Make them thumb nails and then link to an image folder for bigger pix. Should speed it up a lot. Great stuff shown on your site. Very cool projects! Russ

Thank you Russ! My wife and I really appreciate your input!

[myxpykalix]

Mark,
I didn't recall a slow loading time but if it is that may be due to large size picture files. If so you can get a image file size reducer that would lower the byte size of the file, allowing pictures to load faster. You may want to check the file size of your pictures to see if that is your issue then use something like this pgm to reduce them:

http://download.cnet.com/JPG-JPEG-Image-File-Size-Reducer-and-Batch-Image-Resizer/3000-10247_4-10905130.html?tag=mncol;3

[SomeGuys2007]

Mark,
I didn't recall a slow loading time but if it is that may be due to large size picture files. If so you can get a image file size reducer that would lower the byte size of the file, allowing pictures to load faster. You may want to check the file size of your pictures to see if that is your issue then use something like this pgm to reduce them:

http://download.cnet.com/JPG-JPEG-Image-File-Size-Reducer-and-Batch-Image-Resizer/3000-10247_4-10905130.html?tag=mncol;3

Thank you Jack! I am a newbee so I appreciate all the help I can get!

[ssflyer]

Mark,

Great looking site, and a couple of suggestions:
The oval graphics on your home page total almost 3MB, alone. The quicktime audio is slow to load, so I'd also offer the option to turn it off. Even the menu "buttons" add up to about 1MB. Similar on a lot of your pages. Looks like the designer just uploaded the full sized images, then set the display size for the pages. This still requires loading all those huge images. OK, if you're on a T1 - not so much on satellite, DSL, or, heaven forbid, a dial-up connection!

I try to keep my background images under about 50K and other link images in the 15-25K range.

Hope that makes sense! ;)

BTW, don't bother following the link to my site - I'm redoing the whole thing - but it sure loads fast, now! :)

[SomeGuys2007]

Thank you Ron Sloan. I will confess now that I designed this site by myself and realize that some of the images are too large. Unfortunately, my wife and I are so busy that I have no time to adjust the image sizes. I guess I will have to work on them little by little. I will check out your site when you get it up and running. Thanks again! :)