Lost, need Guidance-Want to make a wedge

[NSC3d]

So I just got a used prtalpha.
Has partwizard and vcarve but I cant make anything with a taper only a pocket type tool path. I guess i could do a ramp tool path but seems like allot of room for error here.
I want to mill a ski core.
This is just a long tapered plank. This is super simple or at least it should be.
Problem is I cant even draw it in 3d.
The previous owner was writing the coordinates by hand in shopbot editor. I will not do this. Seems stupid. I plan on making a ton of different types of tapers for the cores.
I blew all my money on this machine and it can only do 2d?

I have visualmil for tool pathing and I was hoping i could draw the simple 3d core in this as well.
I don't have any other cad other than basic 2d cad and sketchup basic not pro and I cant get any of the export functions to work at all following the files to download and whatnot. Just does not work even with the older versions of sketchup.
PLease help me?
Im lost at this point. Days have been wasted and I cant find a decent tutorial on how to construct a simple tapered plank.
I really didn't think I was this clueless but I guess I have no idea what I am doing. Machine is just sitting gathering dust at this point.
Let me knwo what I can do for compensation in exchange for some teaching as im lost.
Thanks

[dana_swift]

making parts is often a matter of thinking creatively.. how about cutting the wedge horizontally by cutting a pie shape out of flat material. That is very easy to do with the software you have.

Its important to distinguish the difference between the capabilities of the design software, and the capabilities of the machine and its control program. Clearly the ShopBot can make wedges in any dimension. The Bot is very flexible in its applications. The design software is very well written for "typical" application, but not "all" applications.

Sometimes I resort to writing a program to generate the SBP file I need. Then I am only limited by the Bot itself and my imagination.

Start simple, get the machine working and make some projects you can see how to make. After that you will start seeing new ideas and methods.

Keep reading the forum also :)

Hope that helped-

D

[NSC3d]

Thanks but, No Not helpful unfortunately.
I have no idea how to make it cut a pie shape at all, ramping the toolpaths?
If its so easy can you show me a tutorial or an example of this being done I don't see this anywhere in here.
Everyone is just making flat signs and flat cut profiles.
Where do I start?
Cutting in 2d is not what I am looking to do at all, I can do this with plotter templates and a router with a pattern bit.
Am I wrong in thinking I need to design a 3d tapered plank and have visual mil do the toolpthaing and post process in sbd format?

[garyr6]

Your software is made by Vectric, go to their web site and go to school with the training programs. You got one of the best CNC tools available and some of the very best software but you need to understand the software tools and processes. You may decide that you should invest in ASPIRE which is the 3d program (upgrade from you 2 plus2.5d package you have now).
The training programs by Vectric are considered some of the best around....take a day and work through them. Then, if you have some questions, come back. There is a world of help here. I dare say there a a few here doing what you are talking about.

[NSC3d]

Upgrading to aspire is not an option at those prices.
Ill do the tutorials and see if that gets me anywhere.
I really need a 3d drawing tutorial but not just simple boxs.
Can't seem to find that online.
I know there are several people milling ski and snowboard cores, just looking for a few specifics to get me started as just fumbling along with complete trial and error is getting me zero results.
I'm all about sharing info and don't believe in secrets.
I give back allot to online comunities and help people all over the world with stuff I've designed and built.
Just lookin for a bit to come back my way.

[Kyle Stapleton]

Post a working drawing of what you want to make.

[NSC3d]

Post a working drawing of what you want to make.
wish I could.
I cant draw anything in 3d at all.
Totally uneducated still.
how bout a linear taper 3d tapered wedge.
2.8mm thick at tip tapering up to 12.3mm thick setback 50mm from center flat spot for 300mm and back down to 2.8mm at tail. full length 1650mm.
the entire thing would be 165mm wide.
Make sense?
Of course I have a 2d shape like a ski to be cut, but I can do that initially before the 3d profile is milled.

[myxpykalix]

NSC3d....Can I call you N?:D

First, i can feel the frustration in your posts, so take a deep breath, relax, and lets see if we can help. Since i am unclear about what you want to do based on your explanation and my total lack of knowing anything about skis and cores ect If you can just sketch out what you want maybe i can help you get there.

is this what you are talking about?:confused:

[NSC3d]

Hey thanks jack,..freaking out right now. sorry.
Im not sure what the shape is on the left looks like what I mix epoxy with..but yes, its big tapered plank, tapered on both ends tip to tail.
eventually I want the hypotenuse of your drawn triangle to be an elliptical curve buts that's later. Linear tapers for now.
heres a snowboard, focus on the wood part, and its flat to start and pressed into that rise with composite.
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o606/d-train1979/IMG_00361.jpg

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii617/jukesnowboarding/IMG_5111_zpsb442b546.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579714_10101505179789538_1987714383_n.jpg

[NSC3d]

I kinda just got one but just by freak occurence and clicking and not to scale.
Gotta redo what I just did with measurements.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18568&stc=1&d=1376456099

[NSC3d]

I may have figured it all out guys.
I drew a shape, made the toolpaths, previewed and post processed to sbd and tested in sb3. The preview in sb3 is brutally slow and barely rendered but it did render.
I might be on my way.
sorry to freak out.
Thanks.
It only took 5 days of wild clicking.:confused::D

[myxpykalix]

Now that i see what you are trying to do, you can accomplish this by using a 2 rail sweep to make the arch shape fairly easily

[Brian Harnett]

Taking the time to correctly learn design software will cut down the frustration how can the machine make something you don't Know how to draw?

I suggest you take some cad classes or at the least see if there are tutorials on line for your software.

[tlempicke]

This is a little like learning how to dance. You have two chores in front of you, fortunately both are fun to do.
You have to learn how to operate the shopbot. It is not hard to do but there is a definite system and rhythm to it that you must master. This is going to cost a few tool bits and some material. Slow, methodical, do it the same way every time, check in your mind if you are really ready before you start the tool and then watch the first move or two with your finger poised over the space bar!
You say you can't afford software! That is a little like buying a Porsche and then not driving it because you can't afford high octane fuel.
Aspire is exactly what you need and has a great tutorial. They give credit for the software you already own. You need to purchase through Shopbot to get this deal.
This forum is super helpful. Every time I log on I pick up some sort of little tip and even if it does not pertain to what I am currently doing it is helpful.

[NSC3d]

Hey brian, yes of course and if you see my previous post I did draw esentially what I want to cut and did do toolpaths and post processed to sbd format.
The control software does throw some errors, probably related to the toolpathing I created.
Jack ill check that out when I have some free time.

I made the assumltion the mchine came with the software I needed to do what I want but now I see this is really just for making flat things but I have owned visual mil for a while and never used it. I was going to use it for another machine aplication.

I don't have access to classes so online is where I'm trying to learn this.
I can't seem to find the tutorials I need for my application but I am making progress now.
Slowly.
If you guys have useful ljnks please post them here.

[knight_toolworks]

I cut a lot of planer cribs for local ski companies. the crib is the reverse of what you want cut into mdf and then they run them through the planer. This is much faster then using your machine to do it.

[bill.young]

If you don't want to use any new software you can do what you want using Vcarve and the Extruder Virtual Tool that's included with the ShopBot software, but the toolpath will usually be pretty inefficient.

Instructions are included with the Extruder but basically you draw the side profile you want and toolpath it as a 2d file, then run it through the Extruder, pick the values that work for your job, and a 3d file will be spit out.

The attached images hopefully will show the process. I exaggerated the heights to make it easier to see what's going on.

[donek]

It looks like you gave on the mogul cutting the core profile. I really don't know anyone creating core profile programs with anything standard. From the first core taper I ever cut on my shopbot in 1999, I created my own code for doing this. It's actually quite simple if you generate a path that traverses the length of the core and loops until it's completed the entire width. Just create a master file and enter the thicknesses at various locations as variables. Then all you do for different models is edit the few values.

Below is a program I have simply written here on the fly. As I have not actually run it, it may have some bugs, but it represents the basic principles. We both know there are a few more variables to include, but this will get you started.

&shovelthick = 0.060
&waistthick = 0.300
&tailthick = 0.060
&corelength = 50
&width = 12
&cutterdiameter = 1
&y = 0

restart:

m3,0,&y,&shovelthick
m3,&corelength/2,&y,&waistthick
m3,&corelength,&y,&tailthick

&y = &y + &cutterdiameter *0.9

if &y>&width goto finish

goto restart

finish:
jh
end

[Red F]

We don't all do 2d. I designed this in SketchUp because I need to update my Aspire.

[curtiss]

....Machine is just sitting ...gathering dust... at this point.
Let me knwo what I can do for compensation in exchange for some teaching as im lost.

Hang in there for a while, the dust really starts to gather once you start cutting....

[feinddj]

What you are asking to do is a taper in the horizontal plane?

The software way: There is not an option for a fluting tool path that wouldn't require you to draw your stepovers as lines. Better to draw it in 3d and mill the surface as a 3d surface.

The old school way: If you need a certain taper, make a sled that is that taper on the bed of your machine. Then simply mill a pocket the size of the board. One end will barely be touched, the other milled down and viola, a tapered plane with a straight bit.

David

[khaos]

@Donek, Very cool for sharing. Do you core your snowboards this way?

@NSC keep at it you have a ton of experience here. There will be growing pains but you will find that it will get easier.

[donek]

@Donek, Very cool for sharing. Do you core your snowboards this way?


That's the basics of how it's done. I have had 14 years to build on that concept though, so it has evolved, and become more complex in some ways. Everything we do is basically automated from a set of numbers that define the overal shape and stiffness of the board. I don't produce any drawings for a board unless it's a concept we've never created before. Usually we just build on previous concepts. All the code for cutting parts is exported and we cut without ever looking at an image of the board. It's become very refined. Every part fits perfectly and almost every board is unique in some way. It's very rare for us to make the same shape within a 2 week period.

[genek]

We don't all do 2d. I designed this in SketchUp because I need to update my Aspire.
what type of bit is that,, never saw a green colored bit... is is one of those new tungsten bead bits.

[NSC3d]

Thanks folks to the help. Looks like as always there are several ways to skin this cat.
Thank you sean specifically for your feedback. I am really tring to avoid writing all the coordinants for this, seems real easy to screw it up.
I tried to use visual mill but when post processing to sbd and importing into control software my scaling is way off.
Started with a dxf brought into vm, scale all good at 1850mm. Made tool paths/feeds and speeds and post process and bring into sbd and my ski is now under 100mm. Does sb3 just not handle metric units well? I guess I should take this to a vm forum.

[jdwykrent]

I was able to do my "Ramp" with the fluting tool path.

[gibl5s]

Looks like to me the 2 rail sweep is the key to your problem.
Some of the best tutorials ONLY come with the disk from aspire.
I bought aspire and study it 2 hours each morning. That's the only way to get it. I showed some things that I've done to James at the IWF and he was very impressed, but I didn't get it at Walmart, it came from working, working, being consistent, and persistent. I have practiced guitar for 45 years and now I play with Nashville's best. But you have to keep trying!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gary Campbell]

Randolph...
This may help: http://www.shopbotblog.com/index.php/2010/12/z-extruder/