PRS Alpha BT48 with power stick and table supports question.

[parcelpuppy]

Here's a stupid question from someone just looking at getting a PRS Buddy 48: Is the HOLD-DOWN mechanical or do I have to look forward to plumbing a vacuum system from scratch for this particular machine?

[kartracer63]

What are you planning on making with your ShopBot?

[bleeth]

Standard equipment does not include a vacuum system. There are several options from using a Fein portable vacuum system, to using Universal vacuum motors like are on a home vacuum system (they actually work very well) to a regenerative blower for full table vacuum or a high pressure low volume system like Gast pumps for "puck" holdowns.

[garyr6]

Most of us use a combination of hold methods, as with most things, somethings work better on somethings. I have a vac puck system for when I am doing edging on a parts, T Tracks for mechanical hold downs, screws for those peskier things and a pin nailer. I guess the only thing I have not used is the little kid next door ( I couldn't do it, he's my IT support !)

[rayman]

http://youtu.be/fOrkvPF0pro, check out this video from Donektools. com pretty neat i must say..:eek:

[bleeth]

Ray:
Note a couple things.
First he's using that to hold thin light-weight material to be cut by a dragknife so as the parts are being cut there is little loss of vacuum and second, there is very little force exerted laterally against the material being cut. You could never use a vac that small for cutting wood or plastic with a larger bit and any cheap shopvac type vac will burn up quickly under heavier more extended use. The reason the Fein vacs work is they cool the motors with a fresh air supply rather than the air taken in from the vacuum.
Lot's of folks tried shopvacs years ago. They all gave up on them. Last thing you want in your shop is a motor like that overheating. You're lucky if all it does is quit.

[parcelpuppy]

I'm mostly making just dados in 6' long X 4" wide boards; relief carvings on one side of these boards. Pattern cut-outs in PVC sheeting no wider than 48". Duplicating wood profiles for mouldings, etc. Pattern cut-outs in hardwood boards and plywood no wider than 48" and no longer than 80".

Gloria

[parcelpuppy]

I didn't know if a vacuum hold-down system was even an option when using a Buddy BT48 with a Power Stick.

[rayman]

Thanks Dave I haven't tried that cause I was a little leary on the vac he was using questioning how long it would last before going out. I use a fein vac in my shop and do not have a vac system. I just thought it was neat how he did it and was aware what he was using it for. Thanks for your input.:)

[Joe Porter]

Gloria, a Vacuum type hold-down is problematic with the Buddy due to the moving table. This makes it hard to plumb in the piping and vac motors, etc. Maybe you should consider a fixed table machine. Having said that, I have owned a Buddy BT32 for five years and manage to secure everything I want to cut successfully. Good luck with your purchase decision....joe

[billp]

Gloria
A number of people with Buddy's HAVE set up vacuum systems on their tables, but as Joe points out the moving table requires a little "adaptation". The trick is to bring your vacuum hose in from the SIDE of the table, not the bottom, as you can see in the attached pictures. Most people build their own vacuum rigs , and they are tailored to the needs of each individual...

[parcelpuppy]

Thanks, Joe

I just don't have the room for a fixed machine, and I think the Buddy will do what I need while meeting my room shortage. With the moving table, I assume I will have to use mechanical hold-downs? Is that what you did when you had your Buddy?

Gloria

[Joe Porter]

Gloria, I usually use scraps of thin material such as narrow fingers of plywood that I notch out to but up against the work and use a Kreg pocket screw set back from the work to secure the hold down. Of course, this means you have to leave a little material around the cut out and use tabs to hold the finished piece. This usually works well and is cheap and ready to go. Also, you can screw the material down directly in strategic places that you can determine would be in safe areas while you are designing your project. Hope this helps, joe

[Billions]

Gloria -

As pointed out by others, the table on the Buddy moves, as opposed to the larger Shopbots where the gantry moves over a stationary table - this makes the prospect of Buddy vacuum hold-down more difficult than with the stationary carve surfaces on the larger machines.

On my Buddy (a 48 alpha with the 10" powerstick and additional rollers/support legs that the powerstick requires) I just stick with the simple screw-down into the spoil boards I use, which are attached to an underlying MDF sheet attached to the Powerstick. Of course, this is assuming you have some waste area available outside of your design to screw through.

For thicker material (I often carve 3-4 inch thick walnut), I do what Joe above mentioned, which is use the Kreg pocket screw drill bit, drill about 2" deep near the edge of my material, to allow a Kreg pocket screw to be used to hold down the piece, below the level of my carve.

If I have a piece that I can't put a screw through - say, a natural wood shape I want to keep, or a thick block that I only want to take the top surface off of, I often use the Festool side clamps ( http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/work-tables/clamps/clamping-elements-2-pack-488030 ) and 20mm holes I put into my spoil board with a forstener bit. Not as strong and steady as screwing it down, but often enough.

The vacuum hold-down is tantalizing... I've used it on larger machines, and it is soooo fast and easy when you're placing your material for carving. But I've looked into many videos and options that people have created to add it to the Buddy machines, and while it seems cool, I recognize that it's likely not really worth the work it would take for me to add it to my machine. I get fantastic results with the good ol' screw-down method.

As for your machine/room size concerns, I would say that after it's all said and done, my Buddy with the 10" powerstick now takes up more space than a full-size Shopbot would have - about 14' of length-space is required in my case. I couldn't really justify what the larger machine was going to cost me upfront, though.

I love the size of the Buddy with the 4" powerstick but I wanted to point out that if you go with any other Powersticks in the future, the compact size of the Buddy isn't actually so compact once you consider that the Powerstick moves back and forth through the machine, and therefore can require several feet or more of clear area for the table and Powerstick to move into, both in front of the machine and behind.

EDIT: Seeing now how old this thread is. Sorry, Gloria, you probably have it all figured out! Maybe someone in the future can use some of this info.