Cabinet Parts Pro

[jkaras2000]

Happy New Year Everyone. I am getting ready to use Cabinet Parts Pro. Maybe a silly question, but can someone please tell me if I can use a .25 bit to cut cabs, dados etc. When I look at software it is calling for what I think is a 3/8" bit. Also what size drill bit is needed for shelf pins and hinges. Thanks Joe:cool:

[ken_rychlik]

Yes you can. I use 1/4 inch shelf pins. 5mm shelf pins are more common to use, but you can find 1/4 inch

[curtiss]

From what little I know, this 3/8" bit is popular for cabinets... the Vortex people could help.

http://www.vortextool.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=31&CFID=115012&CFTOKEN=f0eb081b42650b3c-0FA4E76E-E349-C4C2-021C20BBAA017C1C

[kevin]

A 1/4 inch to cut I think you'll be breaking a lot of bits
I use a 1/2 bit I tried 3/8 with default setting was not happy with blind dado
I motivated the setting for through dado with no stop easy assembly .
Try a small cabinet see whats best for you

Also I have not found a good bit over 30 dollars that give good results 100 sheets .I use exchange a bit double flute for 20 sheets at about 13 dollars a bit .I'm will to try a expensive bit its confusing my local tool supplier doesn't have a clue which bit is best

[mark_stief]

I use 1/4 down cut for everything Dados shelf pins and cutting cabinet out 1 pass 3/4" deep works perfect for me never had problems with bits breaking
I've never really kept track of how many sheets I get out of one bit probably between 40-50 sheets Just listen to the bit and how it's cutting I normally run about 12,000 RPM's again listen to the bit and adjust from there

[Kyle Stapleton]

Spindle or router? How fast are you cutting? I was told the the diameter should be the max cut, are they just being safe or was I told wrong?

[mark_stief]

3hp spindle and I'll run anywhere from 1.6 to 2.2 on speed but I also have 15hp vacuum pump so my parts don't move when cut and the down cut fills the cut so to keep my vacuum up From loading to reloading the next sheet is 10-12 min I started out using the cut depth you're saying but trying to stay awake between sheets was really hard:)

[steve_g]

Kyle...
Onsrud recommends:
1X D use recommended chipload
2X D Reduce chipload by 25%
3X D Reduce chipload by 50%

SG

[jkaras2000]

Thanks for all the great advice gang. I readily have .25 inch bits. As long as they will work with the program, I most likely will use them. By the way, I am running a 2.2HP Spindle. I was hesitant when I initially purchased it, but do not regret my decision one bit. Very glad I did. Joe.

[gene]

Joe , Have you looked at the video"s on ccp web site ? I use ccp with a .25 comp bit and it does very well. It has been so long since i set it up but i will try to help if i can . The first thing i did was to click on each type of cabinet and check the things that apply to that cabinet , then go to toolpath and enter .25 for all the toolpaths needed . its realy pretty simple. Hope you enjoy it as much as i have

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Gene: I spent all day yesterday fooling around with and learning the software. The 3d visualization was helpful pointing out obvious mistakes I had made. I plan on using it to build a kitchen for a country home we are building. Drywall is next, so I am taking time to get comfortable with CPP. I understand how to change bit size, thanks so much. It really is pretty straight forward. One question I have is, how do I cope with not having a Vacuum table? Can I import DXF files to Aspire and use tabs? I woke up with that question this morning. I plan on building frameless cabs, and ordering raised panel doors and installing them afterwards. If I have any other questions, I'll be sure to contact you. Thanks so much. Joe

[gene]

You can import the dfx drawings into aspire , locate marks for screws and make cuts like .05 deep where you know that the cutters will not be cutting . Run the screw location file first , stop the machine , screw the material down and go from there, also you can cut the final cut out pass so it will only be cutting an really thin pass , They call it an onion skin . that way there is almost no laterial pressure on the material you re cutting, . I set mine up to do the back side dados first then the top and bottom blind dado then side then cut 2 % then the final cut out. Hope this helps

[gene]

If you are going to paint the cabinets its easy to make your own doors

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Gene: I like your ideas. I tried opening DXF CPP files in Aspire. I think I would have to reconfigure all the cuts. If i'm right, it's a lot of extra work. Maybe just using CPP and leaving an onion skin and or hold down screws would be easier. Still fooling around with things. Joe

[gene]

you will get it worked out . Just keep on pluggin away , soon enough you will be there .:)

[jkaras2000]

Well, I took my first shot at CPP this afternoon. I have reviewed the software, and I thought things were looking pretty good. I loaded up my PRS 4x8 and went to town. I did not make out so good. 1. My first attempt provided a broken 1/4" bit. Ouch! I was warned. 2. My second attempt, was with a 1/2" bit, and I figured I would be happily on my way. No such luck. My Shopbot which has been working flawlessly was jumping all over the place. I decided to call it a day. I went inside and made a pot of chily. I'm much calmer now, and can calmly reflect on my experience. I got a messege from the shopbot software saying "Parameter Value Above Range for VS--Setting to Upper Limit (12) I don't think that was a problem though. If anyone has any advice or ideas, I could surely use them. I do have the files for the cabinet that I tried to cut if anyone would like to take a look at them. Back to the Drawing Board. Joe.

[jerry_stanek]

Hopefully Ryan will chime in and help you out

[jkaras2000]

Yeah Jerry, I could use some troubleshooting. I'm hoping it's just something stupid on my part. That would be great if it was. Reminds me of when I was first assembling my bot, wiring it up etc. There were times when I thought I would never get it working. Best thing to do sometimes is just walk away, sleep on it, and wait for a moment of clairvoyance. Joe. :cool:

[mark_stief]

Joe
Send me the cut file I'll have a look at and see what going on If you can send your settings out of CPP also been using that program since "06" and I like it alot

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Mark: I'll send them to you. I think I'm just missing something. Joe

[kevin]

I try to keep it simple see file it important you understand how a cabinet is made I put the file out to help some one else.Its a 30 by 30 23.5 deep cabinet I 'am cheap with material

The thing I don't like about blind dado is you have to have your table almost perfect and all setting exact .We revisited blind dado and said no way why fix something that isn't broken

The big advantage to my system is Assembly its easy to figure out top and bottom and sides we glue and staple I can't get faster I've tried

Part of your problem is your going to fast for your machine also Ryan has a bug with the corner cabinet how I get around is make a dxf and run in Part Works
Also no toe kick we make 4 and half inch bases out of plywood you get a better yield out of a sheet

It will take you while to learn to the program for one kitchen maybe ask someone to program
Ryan program does work amazing I'm really comfortable with it I haven't even bothered to upgrade

[Ryan Patterson]

Joe,
Kevin is correct about the speed, the message you got is telling you that the speed you set is to above the speed the ShopBot is above to move. It then set it to the max speed of 12 ips depending on what the RPM was this could be a problem. Pushing a 1/2" bit through material at 12" per second could cause a lot of bouncing around. Try decreasing the speed to 6ips with an RPM of 12,000.

[jkaras2000]

Thanks for the advise Kevin. I have built cabinets conventionally with square toe kick boxes. Does save a lot of wood, usually make them out of scraps. Good way to burn them up. You mentioned I'm going too fast for the machine. How can I address this issue? Thanks Joe

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Ryan. I just PM'd you. Is speed adjustable through CPP software. Should I be running chip calculator in the software, will this adjust speed etc? Thanks Joe

[Ryan Patterson]

When setting setup your tool path templates change the Feed Rate and Plunge rate then click save as template. You will need to do this for all the cutting operations in the drop down list. Here is a quick video showing how to setup the toolpaths https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqP1IlQjVwk. You will need to enter the feed rate in as Inches Per Second. A Shopbot Alpha has a range of .05 to 12.

[jkaras2000]

OK: So in the toolpath menu, enter 12,000 for rpm, 6 for feed rate xy, and how about plunge rate? and add to depth I would think, leave blank unless you wanted to go deeper? By the way I am running a PRS 48x96 bot.

[jkaras2000]

Well, still not having any luck. Ryan Pattersen had given me some settings, and Mark Steif was nice enough to call and speak to me this morning. Really thought we had this figured out. My first cut plunged right into my sheet of 3/4" birch. Nothing like it was supposed to do. I zeroed to table top, set speed with CPP to 3, Plunge rate 1. I am attaching a snipet of the Toolpath screen with settings, and of plunge the bot made. As always, any advise or moments of clarity are very much appreciated. Joe 19660

19661

[kevin]

do an air cut with out the sheet see if it makes sense by defaut I think it has 1/4 inch jog look for setting .I think it moving and not being cleared may be speed up jog on Z

[gene]

Joe ,
Give me a call and lets see if i can walk you thru the setup . I use a .25 bit for everything except shelf pin holes 706 830 3247 , i also have mine set up to zero to the top of the material . lets see what happens

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Gene and Kevin: Ken from the forum suggested we raise the safe z and Ryan ageed. 19663 That got me to a safe height when moving around the table bed. Changing the Z fixed the problem at hand. I just cut the file I attached. This is not the file I had problems with earlier. It was only supposed to be back bottom dado's. It ended up cutting a complete side panel out, and a top stretcher after cutting the dado's At this point free parts moved and jammed up the bot forcing me to abort. Threw my xyz home out of whack, don't think I can salvage this one. I am including file for you to look at. I was not expecting to cut through on this file cut. I was going to nudge up when I ran the file cut to keep things from moving on the bot bed. Getting closer though. Thanks Joe.

Gene: I'll give you a call in the morning. Thanks Joe.

I forgot to mention, that when the parts were cut out my half inch bit cut right through 3/4" one pass. Pretty scary.

[mark_stief]

Joe
In CCP under tools/nesting settings do you have your depth of cut set first pass is where you can leave your onion skin and then second pass will cut clear thru I cut full depth with a 1/4" bit so with a 1/2" bit doesn't seem like it should be that bad except for all the pressure that bit is applying to your plywood trying to move Also have you set material thickness in every cabinet and saved it in a file The picture almost looks like it thought the top of your table was the plywood I only run.20 Z clearance doesn't seem like you should need 1.75 safe Z

[mark_stief]

Joe
In CCP under tools/nesting settings do you have your depth of cut set first pass is where you can leave your onion skin and then second pass will cut clear thru I cut full depth with a 1/4" bit so with a 1/2" bit doesn't seem like it should be that bad except for all the pressure that bit is applying to your plywood trying to move Also have you set material thickness in every cabinet and saved it in a file The picture almost looks like it thought the top of your table was the plywood I only run.20 Z clearance doesn't seem like you should need 1.75 safe Z P.s I lost your number P.M. it if you want to talk again it's gotta be something simple to fix

[jkaras2000]

Hi Mark: I checked the settings as you suggested. I am attaching it for you to see and check. I just don't understand why the Back Bottom Dado File cut right through the 3/4" Ply. I thought it would just be cutting .375 to cut dado's? I am hoping it's something simple as you suggest. Getting Closer though. Thanks Joe

[jkaras2000]

Hi Mark: I checked the settings as you suggested. I am attaching it for you to see and check. I just don't understand why the Back Bottom Dado File cut right through the 3/4" Ply. I thought it would just be cutting .375 to cut dado's? I am hoping it's something simple as you suggest. Getting Closer though. Thanks Joe

First cut is limited to .03 in case you can't see it clearly.

[myxpykalix]

Joe i haven't been following this thread and don't know this pgm but just wanted to point out that .03 is a way smaller cut then .3 and wondered if in your settings you were supposed to say how much material "to leave" as opposed to how much to cut, and that accounts for why it is cutting so deep?:confused:

[Ryan Patterson]

Joe,
It will save all operations with the same tool number to the same file. Notice the tool1 in the file name. The depth per pass sets depth per pass, this is the amount you will allow the bit to go in a single pass. You have it set to 1 this is greater than the material thickness so it will cut in one pass.

If you email me your phone number and I time to call we can get all this worked out fairly quick.

Ryan

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Jack: Ryan has offered to give me a ring. I just sent him my number. I told him anytime tomorrow is fine to call. I've had some great help from CPP users so far. I'm further ahead than where I was. I'm banking on Ryan helping me to sort this out when we speak. I'll keep all posted. Thanks Gang. Joe

[gene]

No doubt ,he will get you up and running :)

[kevin]

You're good hands

Here is a better explanation done in Part works to show how simple .I realized 4 years ago after lunch I had to make 6 draws by 4:30 o'clock all was finished and installed that includes edging .Before that I was use to a table saw it would have taken all day.

I think picture and drawing are easier to follow its zipped its 30 by 30 23.5 deep

[jkaras2000]

Ok Guys: Ryan called me this morning, and helped to get me up and running. I had some problems with settings. He helped me to set it up, so we can leave an onion skin. I have not vac, so hold down is a problem, and was part of my problem along with having to raise the safe z. Oh, also had a speed movement problem, way too fast. I thought you could save each layer as a file. I thought I would run the profile cut last, and nudge the bit up to leave an onion skin. Little did I know that the entire dado/cut files are all run in one file So when it started cutting through the 3/4 ply it was a shock as I was not suspecting it. Being a weekend botter, I have somewhat of a learning curve, and still need to spend some time getting more familiar with the program. Many thanks to all who helped with posts, and with whom I've spoken to. You guys are the absolute best. Lot of smart guys on this forum. Thanks to Ryan for providing excellent product support. He went way beyond to help me out. Stay well all, see you in the forum. Joe

[mark_stief]

I told you it was going to be something simple Glad he has you up and running you'll like the program once you get to know what all the settings do Have fun and let's see pic's when you get one made:)

[jkaras2000]

Thanks Mark. I appreciate yours and everyone else's time and help. Can you suggest a good hinge plate and hinge combo. One that is fully adjustable. I most likely will farm out cabinet doors if I go raised panel. I'll leave that decision to the wife. Cabinets will be frameless. Joe.

[gene]

Blum are good hinges as well as others . Are you going to paint or stain the cabinets?

[jkaras2000]

Going to stain them Gene. Nice and easy. May even just leave them natural and just clear coat them.