Version 3.8.10 [Archive] - Let's Talk ShopBot

srwtlc

01-30-2014, 05:40 PM

Get rid of Norton. If your control PC doesn't go online, there's not much need for it, but if you transfer files from anther computer that could be compromised, the free Microsoft security essentials is more than enough and doesn't cause issues. Very small footprint and not a resource hog like Norton. Set it to manual updates.

After installing 3.8.X and updating the firmware (UI), did you reload the defaults for your machine with (UR)?

Command a mx of 10" and then look at the diagnostics (UD) and at the bottom of that screen, what is your packet-et value? If it's out of range, you can try another port to see if it's better. If you are using a USB hub, try it without the hub. 3.8.X does better without it.

angelosart

01-30-2014, 06:20 PM

Scott
Thanks. I'm trying that next. Are you recommending this because you had similar problems?

Angelo

steve_g

01-30-2014, 06:32 PM

I finally went back to 3.6.46… I kept trying to work through the issues because I like the features of 3.8.xx. I grew so frustrated that I left the machine on in a storm hoping for a lighting strike. I would have taken the insurance and bought another brand! 3.6.46 is like a faithful old friend and all works reliably now.

In retrospect… I think I did have some issues, issues that 3.8XX is super sensitive about. I Soldered the wire on to the Z-zero clamp rather than using the crimped connector and haven’t had a z-zero failure since. I was having false Prox hits everywhere with 3.8XX but under 3.6.46 they happened the same place every time, letting me track down what was apparently a bad splice in a cable, at least it hasn’t reappeared after re-soldering.

A problem that started with 3.8.XX and stayed on in the move back is that every time I restart the machine in the A.M. the DRO says that the X axis is at -12.XX”. No matter where the gantry is… This requires a X axis zeroing to even move close to the prox sensors to set X,Y home.
Enough ranting… I’ve re-gained my brand loyalty and am shutting off my machine during storms.
SG

Lowellbot

01-30-2014, 06:37 PM

Angelo,

I did all the recommended items.

Diagnostics show good
Updated with a UR after loading software
Removed USB hub
No virus software

Still experience jerky moves with move and jog in keyboard mode. Runs fine within a program. Better than before I did the items above, but still worse than my previous version.

I would be interested if anyone else experiences this or has other recommendations on what to try. I am just living with it as is for now.

srwtlc

01-30-2014, 07:06 PM

In all my beta and current version testing, I've only had something somewhat similar happen upon first use on a newly built computer and a fresh install of Win 7. Reloading defaults helped that situation, but that's not to say that is the answer.

Also, if your computer happens to have USB 3.0, it's best to not use one of those ports.

angelosart

01-30-2014, 10:45 PM

Well I uninstalled Norton and it still having problems. Jolting, Shuttering.

Lets see if I can list all I've tried and checked to this point:

I'm using inches
I've tried re-downloading 3.8.10 and the firmware
I've UR to reset
I am using 2.0USB
I removed the hub and direct USB
I've tried to change the VS and VR settings
I removed quite a bit of my files to allow for more memory
I've uninstalled Norton and tried all the above
I'v made sure the laptop is plugged in

Also alarming is my packet ET is in 130s

Any other suggestions I may have missed?!!!

srwtlc

01-30-2014, 11:28 PM

I know people do and will continue to do so, but I really dislike running these thing with laptops. I tested my laptop a while ago (a core i7 HP), and it has 4 usb ports, 2 on each side. One side worked good and the other didn't. Try all the available ports and test each to see if one works better than the other. Sometimes the controllers for them are from different manufactures. Make sure that all powersaving features are turned off. A lot of laptop CPU's are designed to throttle up and down. There could be a setting in the BIOS to turn off that feature. If you have another computer, maybe a desktop that you can try and compare results with.

angelosart

01-31-2014, 03:42 AM

Scott, I really appreciate the help. Unfortunately I don't have another computer. I did several months of research on the SB, but apparently I missed something and I didn't know that laptops were so limited in powering the SB control software. My SB is in an unheated garage here in New England so even if I had a desktop I don't think the garage is the place for one to stay. Next year I'll invest in a heater.

Whats frustrating is that I purchased the SB and the laptop both new 7 months ago and I've never had a problem like this till I downloaded the 3.8.10 version the other night.

Yes, I changed the power setting to performance. No luck. At this point I think my only option is to go back to the previous version I had. But my concern is moving forward is every subsequent version going to be incompatible? That's disappointing to say the least since, like I said, the laptop is only 7 months old.

jerry_stanek

01-31-2014, 07:23 AM

JimDav

01-31-2014, 11:29 AM

Angelo - Just an FYI - removing files has NOTHING to do with memory. This is a fairly common misunderstanding of computers and how they operate.

Files are stored on the disk, not in memory. Removing files only frees up some disc space and in no way relates to memory (RAM) Memory is only used to execute the program and operating system that is running at that moment in time. When the computer is shut down there is nothing in memory. My credentials - many, many years in the Information Technology field.

I'm a neubie with ShopBot but my understanding from the forum and my computer knowledge says there should not be anything running other than the control software. No hibernation, no screen savers, no email, no music, no other programs, no anti-virus, no malware software, no nothing. It needs to be a dedicated, stand alone computer. As the job runs, don't be checking anything on the computer either. All of these things may take CPU cycles that the control software may need to send a signal to the motors at the precise moment needed and not a few milliseconds later.

Hope this helps. I realize it does not explain why you are having problems with the new release.

srwtlc

01-31-2014, 11:59 AM

Was just informed that version 3.8.12 (http://www.shopbottools.com/mSupport/controlsoftware.htm) is public today. Maybe it will help with some of these issues.

Version notes as follows....

Version 3.8.12 -- Maintenance Update (FIRMWARE UPDATE REQUIRED; included)
- [UR] (Reset Settings) no longer showing option to delete SbSys.Log in ; makes it more permanent; delete
from C:\ProgramData\ShopBot\ShopBot 3
- [UR] fixed problem with running from mm for some settings files; now stays in mm if called from mm
- Updated math precision to prevent rounding error causing shift to slow speed in some long files
- In Keypad, Fixed Distance Moves now supported for Rotary (deg) Axes. NOTE! to avoid needing to input a
separate distance for just for the rotary axis: if you are in inches, rotation will be X10 the inch
distance in degrees; if you are in mm, rotation will be X0.10 mm distance in degrees
- In Keypad, Memorized location move pull-up warning improved in comparing current Z/A location
- In Keypad, (a new) Memorized locations will be converted to current units before the move if units do not
match the recorded value. E.g. a location recorded as 2,1 in inches, will send tool to 50.8, 25.4 if
the software is in mm mode. (You need to re-input older locations for this fuctionality to take effect.)
- Fixed inconsistencies in (rarely-used) positive plunge system; we only recommend positive plunge for special
situations
- Improved spindle shut-down if communications lost
- In C2 (Z-zero) routine; there is no longer an automatic pull up to Safe-Z height before touching off on the
plate. The assumption being that you could not run the routine if you weren't above the plate. (The pull-up
still occurs after each touch-off on the plate. Use [VC] to reduce the Safe-A pull-up if you do not want to
pull up as high. The default value is 1.0inches/25.4mm for most tools, .5in/12.7mm for Desktops and
Handibot.)

(Note that all Installs of ShopBot Software include a README file and an Update History file that detail changes in the software across versions and releases.)

srwtlc

01-31-2014, 01:08 PM

I did several months of research on the SB, but apparently I missed something and I didn't know that laptops were so limited in powering the SB control software.Angelo, don't get me wrong, laptops are plenty capable, it just seems that they are more problematic. They also generally have the most 'Crapware' installed from the manufacturer and much of this stuff likes to 'phone home' or run when it's not needed. Best to always clean all this junk off a laptop or desktop PC before putting into service on the Bot. Setting the OS and any needed software to manual update is something many miss doing also.

angelosart

01-31-2014, 08:15 PM

Update:
Again thanks for replies and people trying to help...
My laptop is 8 months old. Buddy is less than one year
Have not had any issues till now

Did a windows update
No other programs running
Norton uninstalled
Downloaded .12 version
Updated firmware
Did UR
things got better but still hesitating a little on moves and still jolting hesitations on jogs
Packet et went down from 130 to bout 100
Using 2.0 USB
Laptop is plugged in
Using inches
Using default speeds n ramps
Not that things could get worse.. I uninstalled updates started all over and downloaded previous version and now that does not work!!!

Tech support now thinks it may be a problem with my USB ports so I'm going to check with a buddies laptop and see if it works. Otherwise I think all interventions have been exhausted. Been three days no production. Need to call couple of clients to move deadlines back. PRETTY FRUSTRATED RIGHT NOW. I JUST WANT TO KNOWW WHATIT IS

dlcw

01-31-2014, 08:47 PM

I feel for you. I wish I could offer some advice that would get you up and running.

I had a Buddy in 2009 that would not work right no matter what I tried. I finally called Shopbot and told them to arrange to return it. I crated it up and sent it back.

Bought a PRS Alpha 5x8 and spent over 5 weeks (with tech support) trying to get it to work right. I had jobs backing up as well.

Finally got ahold of Gary Campbell (former Shopbot owner and guru) and he helped me get it up and running. Gary is the only thing that saved Shopbot from having to take this machine back and me buying another brand. He was SOOOOOOOO helpful. Couldn't have gotten up and running without him.

To bad he is now a Shopbot orphan..... :(

srwtlc

01-31-2014, 10:54 PM

I would tend to agree that your USB ports are not up to snuff. Instead of struggling with this for so long when work needs to be done, it would have been best to go back to 3.6.46 and try again later when able to take the time. If you have 3.6.46 installed now and it doesn't work, look to see what the comm speed is set at in VI (inputs and driver definitions). It might be set at #5-921.6 from 3.8.XX and for 3.6.46, it needs to be at #4-460.8 and you should put your hub back in line. Once you get 3.6.46 running, I'd run the old speed test to get another indicator of your USB port quality.

angelosart

02-01-2014, 01:17 PM

Scott
Thanks again for a different option. I tried comm speed #4 and #5 with and without hub. No luck again.
Angelo

zeykr

02-01-2014, 02:28 PM

Have you tried another USB cable just to eliminate that as a problem? I had one go bad recently and while machine still worked, it was flakey.

Then I'd borrow another computer and see if you can eliminate your computer as part of the problem or not.

srwtlc

02-01-2014, 02:29 PM

Did you update the control box firmware again after going back to v3.6.64? V3.8.XX and 3.6.64 use different firmware versions and you need to update each time you go from one to the other (UI).

Try a different USB cable. How long is the one you're using now? Try another computer when you get a chance. Keep in touch with SB support too until it's resolved.

ken_rychlik

02-01-2014, 02:43 PM

When I backtracked on a sb3 version before, tech support talked me through going into the registry of my pc and deleting some things. Registry changes with the newer software didn't agree with the old software. If you are going back to 3.6 you may call in and ask about that.

jerry_stanek

02-01-2014, 04:13 PM

I think Shopbot would bennifit from having an option to purchase a computer that is set up to run the shopbot. One that is stripped down and optimised for the Shopbot. That way if someone has a problem on their machine they could purchase a working computer.

Bob Eustace

02-01-2014, 06:15 PM

Jerry, that would be Paradise Found!

bleeth

02-02-2014, 07:19 AM

You're floggin a pretty dead horse on that one Jerry, although I totally agree with you. Maybe Ted will see the light on that someday. Then you'll have a bunch of folks crying that they "had" to buy a computer just for controlling their bot, and although we know you should, there are a lot of folks who don't.

jerry_stanek

02-02-2014, 11:15 AM

I didn't mean that you had to buy it but add it as an option like bits collets and parts.

angelosart

02-02-2014, 12:09 PM

So I tried again to revert to .44 version and it worked...?

Only thing I did differently is when I opened the sb controller it gave me a VR max warning. Last time I hit OK, this time I hit cancel. I am also using hub again. Believe me, every time I tried something different, I would always install firmware and reset settings.

Also found a windows update I missed. Not sure if it had anything to do with it.

Wish I could pin point issue for anyone who has same issue in future but not sure. In future I will create a restore point on my computer right before updating

THANKS TO ALL GUYS WHO TOOK TIME TO REPLY AND TRY TO HELP. Thank god for the patience of Jeremy at tech support as well. I felt like a burden on this one.

angelosart

02-02-2014, 04:41 PM

OK spoke too soon. Another issue. Hope you guys haven't left for good

I downloaded 3.6.44, updated firmware and UR settings
Move & Jog & Keyboard work just fine, no more jerking or hesitation
I have installed firmware
My USB controller is installed
VR & VS are reset
UR has been done

2 problems:
1)When I launch SB controller 3.6.44 I get a Parameter Error Message that says Parameter Value above range VR setting to upper limit 4---If I hit OK I cannot get into Move/Cut mode. If I hit Cancel I can get into Move/Cut mode but eventually come to...

2)When after I zero all axis, I jog to 2,2 and I immediately get a message that no ports found

I may give a prize to anyone that can figure this out for good.
BTW, what is the record for threads/replies?

Bob Eustace

02-02-2014, 04:52 PM

"THANKS TO ALL GUYS WHO TOOK TIME TO REPLY AND TRY TO HELP. Thank god for the patience of Jeremy at tech support as well. I felt like a burden on this one."

Angelo I know I speak for everyone here when I say, please oh please never feel as if you are a burden. All the guys and gals here have the "I love to help gene"! This truly is the best support group on the net and Shopbot can teach all other companies how to support/treat purchasers. I suppose you realise that support is forever with Shopbot and my gosh do you miss it when you deal with others. We are having dimensional issues with two Byrd Engineering Shellix products at present and they cant even be bothered to answer emails and they are 100% American and the suposed leaders in insert helix heads.

jerry_stanek

02-02-2014, 04:59 PM

Make sure you are in inches and not mm

srwtlc

02-02-2014, 05:50 PM

Version 3.6.46 is the last version before 3.8.XX. What model Bot to you have again?

On the 'Parameter Value above range VR setting to upper limit 4' issue, there's a ramp setting (VR) that is above the range of stetting. Open the fill-in sheet with 'VR' and check the values there. You can hover over the values to see what the default is. If you did a 'UR' and reset to the defaults for you machine, they should be right, but...

Not quite sure about the other issue. Does it still move around after answering the dialog? Same computer and same ports? Do you have a spindle control? If so, does the spindle control window pop up?

steve_g

02-02-2014, 06:17 PM

I get the parameter above range message too. Even though it says it changed it, the message is repeated every time I start up… I’ve checked every parameter under VR and none is out of range… I’ve even hit the button to set all parameters to default, yet the message continues… HOWEVER, my bot runs fine after I say “OK”.
SG

srwtlc

02-02-2014, 08:38 PM

Be careful if hitting 'reset', as some versions I've seen that the reset values are wrong or way off what the defaults for the machine are.

Once you get settings you like or settings for special situations like 3D, I like to save those settings with 'US' and if I want to switch between any, I can run them like it was a part file to do so.

angelosart

02-02-2014, 10:17 PM

Yeah, I noticed that Scott, one of the things I didn't know before. I reset VS and VR to default settings by going 1 by 1 hovering and reset default if necessary. Exited out. When I went to launch SB controller again, I got the Parameter VR error again and when I checked it, it was not set at default anymore?

srwtlc

02-03-2014, 06:26 PM

I haven't had to resort to this in a long time, but did support have you find and delete the shopbot.ini file. When done, you'll be prompted to chose the settings for your machine again, much in the way a UR does. Reason being, that there was a time where there could be two versions of that .ini file. What OS are you running again? There could be one in 'C:\Program Files\ShopBot\ShopBot 3' or 'C:\Program Files (x86)\ShopBot\ShopBot 3' and might be one in 'C:\ProgramData\ShopBot\ShopBot 3' in Win7. Don't have a XP install handy to check locations.

I see you stated you reloaded version 3.6.44, get the last one of that version, v3.6.46.

angelosart

02-05-2014, 08:39 PM

Scott

To hopefully sum things up and finalize this thread, I finally got it too work and completed a project.

To be honest, I do not know why the newer versions (3.8.10 & 3.8.12). So when that comes up again, I'm skeptical.

In the end when I decided to go back and reinstall version 3.6.44 I think it was not working for two reasons that you had mentioned prior

1)the UR does not always reset to the same parameters, so I checked every parameter like you suggested--I hope this is something I do not have to do every time? Never had to before.

2) the VI was set at 5 for the new versions and when I decided to go back to 3.6.44 I forgot to reset the VI to 4

Now I am still getting the Paremeter Error when I launch control software???? A VR limit error

Thats my best guess, I appreciate ALL the help you gave on this thread.

gerryv

02-08-2014, 02:27 PM

I ran into some instability issues when I first loaded an earlier version of 3.8.xx. being a Mac user, I don't understand quite a lot of these Win. terms and procedures so, rather than struggle I simply wiped my computer completely! reloaded Win 7 with as few features as possible, reloaded Aspire and it seems to have worked out. Strange as it may seem, I'm going to do the same again when I load the latest SB version and cross my fingers.