Neighbors complaining already

[randybot]

Neighbors say my table saw is too loud.
This is a residential neighborhood and I am not suppose to be running a business out of my garage. How do you get around this? Did all of you buy a business location?
I wonder if ShobBot is about as loud as a table saw?

[supertigre]

Randy;

A Shopbot with a PC spindle and dust collector is about 4 - 5 X as loud as a table saw. With a HSD spindle and dust collector it is about 2 - 3 X as loud as the table saw. My router, with a PC spindle, is in the basement (14 years now) and you cannot hear it outside. I have recently upgraded my garage door to a heavily insulated one (R16 with seals) and I am planning on sound proofing the garage and moving the router there soon.

[chiloquinruss]

Randy what size bot? The desktops have a case around them that knocks down some of the noise. It might be possible to do some sort of structure around your bot for sound deadening reasons. Just a thought. Russ

[coryatjohn]

You might tell them you're working on remodeling projects. After a while, they'll get used to the hum of your machinery and hopefully leave you alone.

You might try bribery too. That can work. Offer them something nice. I made new signs for my private drive and everyone loves me. Maybe you can do something like that to win over any busy bodies.

[adrianm]

Guy, you must have an incredibly quiet table saw. My ShopBot (HSD spindle) is nowhere near as loud as my table saw (direct drive, induction motor).

From outside my workshop (it has 4" of insulation) the shopbot and dust collector can barely be heard 15' away. There's no doubt when the table saw is on and cutting even from twice that distance.

[gene]

The top man in charge of planning and zoning in my county told me that if anyone from the county came to me , make sure that you tell them that you are doing things in your shop for your own personal use. That would stop the county from bothering you. Now on a homeowners association i have no advise but to try to use sound dampening materials to try to keep it as quiet as possible . Research how to do this because there are some good advise and tricks that will help you . also you may want to make things for the association

[steve_g]

In my city you can run a business from your home, you can’t have employees at the house other than blood relatives and customers can’t come to the house… I can make “noise” from 9-9 but can’t be any louder than a lawnmower! I’ve been blasted out of bed by a lawn mower many a time and my bot is way quieter!
Our city recognizes that 90% of new businesses start in a garage and are the life blood of any healthy city.
That said… I often talk to my neighbors about what I do and am not shy about making small gifts for them. They all have my card and numbers and know that if they are being bothered they can call.
SG

[Burkhardt]

- Use the smallest bits and run with lowest rpm you can get away with. I mostly cut with 1/8" upspiral for that reason. It is slower than a full depth cut with a bigger bit but that is my price for peace in the neighborhood. Depending on the material I can even leave the garage door open.

- Use a dust collector with an induction motor. Quieter than most shopvacs.

- Use a spindle, not a router

- If you use vacuum, be careful with the pump selelction. A small GAST pump with muffler barely makes any noise but can do only pods.

[scottp55]

I wear hearing protection for a PC laminate trimmer with roundover, but NOT with the desktop with spindle. My Fein turbo 2 is easily twice as loud and the Delta DC is 3 times louder. Depends on what your cutting though and the bit. I've got one 1/4" that screams like a Banshee at 3 IPS,12.5K(best quality cut for me). Everything else you barely have to talk over the Fein.

[wespor]

I had the same concern, I live in an HOA guarded neighborhood. I did what I could insulating the walls and door of my garage and got a spindle. So far (and my experience is limited) it hasn't been as loud as my ShopVac. Standing outside my garage all I can hear is a muffled vacuum, not the range of squeals in cutting direction changes. People keep telling to get a Fein or DC but honestly, I think the shopvac noise is a good disguise.

As far as the neighbors go, I just tell people I'm an artist and only use my bot between 8am and 8pm.

[myxpykalix]

For years i was concerned about bothering my neighbors and then my neighbor got a dog that for two years woke me almost every morning at 7AM with his barking and no matter how nice/angry i was this jerk wouldn't train his dog to shut up until i told him if his dog wakes me at 7am, i wake you the next night at 3am. A few sleepless nights for him to know what i was experiencing and....

Ever since then the dog doesn't wake me anymore:eek:
The morale of the story is that i no longer care if my noise disturbs the neighbor and i work sometimes all night till 4-5am....kind of reminds me of
"You reap what you sow":D

Of course some machines make way more noise then others. I don't use my thickness planer late at night or my dust collector but i use my table saw, shopbot, and other tools. I have no insulation in my walls and can cut with my router at 15k rpm on the bot and you can hear a dull roar only within 10-15 feet of the shop.
Like someone said, never tell anyone you run a business but that this is a hobby. There are "noise standards" in every community but between 8am and 8pm you should be able to make as much noise comparable to a lawn mower without a problem.
Bit selection is an important thing to learn also because some bits SCREAM while others make way less noise.

[feinddj]

I have a commercial location so its not a problem for me.

A couple of things:

Meet with the neighbors who are affected and establish hours for your noise.

Check to see if an "art studio" is OK, many municipalities don't allow manufacturing but do allow art.

Insulation will lower the noise exterior to your workshop. If its not insulated, add batt insulation and then cover with drywall. Most codes require garages to have 5/8 drywall. You can add a second layer of 5/8 and substantially reduce your noise outside. Don't neglect doors and windows. double or triple pane glass will help a lot.

David

[bcondon]

I built onto the back of my garage with a 24 x 16 foot room. This contains my shopbot and my dust collector. The rest of my ship is in the basement with a 4" PVC pipe for my dust collection.

1. My dust collector is in a small closet that is insulated and has 2 x 5/8"
sheet rock on it all sides and a metal insulated door. This is in case of a fire which will be contained for a while.

The rest of my room is insulated with 6" fiberglass on all sides and ceilings with 5/8" sheetrock (fire proofing). My doors are external steel doors with glass.

My dust collector is louder than my shopbot, even in the closet (inside the room) but can just barely be heard in the yard. If you were to use a foam kit in the outside walls, that will kill all of the heat loss and most of the noise penetration. If you want almost all noise, use 1" foam sheets over the studs and under the sheetrock. This will remove any thermal and acoustical attachments. My neighbors are shocked when they see the machine because they never hear any noise except for my beagle!

My basement, I continue to add more studding on the exterior cement walls to add insulation, power and sheetrock to keep the basement toasty warm in our northeast winter. The only heat is the foam insulated pipes providing heat on the first floor and even during the sub zero periods, the basement is typically 60 degrees maybe dropping a few degrees.

[gene]

Bob , Have you ever thought of putting a fire nozzle type fire suppression head in the closet . That way if ( God Forbid ) a fire does happen it will extinguish it fast ? other wise you sound like this isn't you're first rodeo.

[genek]

Most ordnance allow you to make things at your home, you can not have a store front. They do not allow you to have buyers come by per say. The noise can only be between certain hours. A artist or crafts person is allowed to make thing in their home.
When i first started my company i ran into the same problem. I was working out of my garage and had both neighbors complaining about noise i even had to go before a judge the judge ruled that i was a crafts person (even though i sold to stores) and that i was entitled to run my equipment in my garage. That the law stated a business was a place where there was customers coming and going and since i did not have that nor employee's the law did not apply.. I was burning my scrap wood at that time in a barrel in the back yard i had to go see the judge over that and he ruled that as long as i had a container i could burn wood in it for cooking and that i could use the fire pit to sit around at night. The complainers finally shut up.

Find our what the law is.. I did way before i got the first complaint.
Then stand up for your rights.

I BET YOU CAN HEAR THEIR LAWN MOWER IN YOUR HOUSE.

[bcondon]

Gene,
I was lucky because I was refurbing my dad's house after he passed away to I could do whatever I wanted. We added 1000 sq ft of house which meant my basement shop grew 1000 sft and by planning ahead at foundation pour time, I got my Dust collector pipe in the wall.

From there it was making everything safe.

I have a 200 Amp feed to the house and 3 100Amp panels
(shopbot/garage, basement shop, overflow from the 200 Amp service panel.

The electrical inspector liked the work being distributed and neat/professional.

Thanks
BOb

[kevin]

In Montreal I was working out of the garage there very strict .My neighbor 2 houses down ran an electronic repair shop I didn't see him for a while he rented a store front I asked how come he said "the city ask him to move out of the garge or else" what he did wrong said he was running a business gave out flyers with his address.
I told him they came the same time for me i told the inspector the neighbor was jealous of my tools .The inspector was a fellow wood worker last time anyone came .Do not say your running a business out of your garage in Canada if you make less then 30,000 a year you don.t need to charge taxes.If you say your running a business out of your garage then you could have a visit from Health and Safety different names from state to state province to province .They can shut you down in in 2 seconds .It doesn't matter what by laws are in your the city they the city don't have jurisdiction on Health and Safety
Also you need time in low over head to develop have a bad month when you rent commercial it hurts

[genek]

If it is just the dust collector that you are venting out doors, you can fix that. if you are using 4" pvc make a muffler enlarge the 4" on the outside to 10" or 12" put baffles in it and then reduce back to 4" just like a muffler on a car. I can draw you a pattern for the baffles if you like.

[SomeSailor]

I also work hard to get things shut down by 6:30-7:00 pm. I make plenty of noise, but not any more than the average hobby woodworker in the neighborhood. I also never start early on the weekends.

[genek]

I also work hard to get things shut down by 6:30-7:00 pm. I make plenty of noise, but not any more than the average hobby woodworker in the neighborhood. I also never start early on the weekends.

Mike are you a hobby sailor or a navy sailor.

[bob_s]

I am in a city neighborhood with small yards with a 4x8 alpha /spindle. To avoid noise problems I put rock wool insulation in the walls. 3 1/2 inch then a layer of sound deadening board called "quiet brace" for $8 per 4x8 at Home Depot We then attached the drywall to the sound brace with screws and glue. It worked well, cutting about 25 db from inside to outside. I didn't want to go with a commercial system, too expensive ,or a double wall, because I'd lose to much space. The Shopbot is in a side room to the garage so I made a large sliding door that is filled with rock wool to divide the room from the garage My dust collector is a 2 1/2hp penn state cyclone. It works well, but it's loud. About 85 to 87 db added to the Shopbot cutting with a 3/8 bit 95db total you need serious hearing protection inside but it is about as loud as a window air conditioner outside. The rock wool is very different than insulation when it comes to sound deadening and it is rated as fireproof. I did a lot of research and everyone said it's the little things that make a difference. Things like the gaps between window frames and spaces under doors can lead to a lot of sound getting out. Garage doors are a notorious problem that some people have solved with a fire resistant blanket or curtain that gets pulled across on the inside.
There is a cotton insulation made from old blue jeans that is reported to be very good at capturing sound. I heard about it after my shop was built, but the specs are impressive and it's from http://www.bondedlogic.com I heard it can be left exposed without creating a fire hazard?
Hope these ideas help

Eugene, I'd love to see the baffle design maybe it would cut some of my cyclone noise to a better level.

[genek]

Here is a rough drawing of a muffler system.. It is numbered from 1 to 5 with a center or end. This will also work for a muffler for a vacuum system.. and can act a a filter for the vacuum system.

How it works is just like a car muffler...

I did not have any 10" pvc in the shop to measure the inside diameter so this is not accurate.

The .25 holes are to put a dowel rod through to hold the parts of plywood up right and in the staggered position.. Start our with number on Through 5 then the one marked center. for more noise reduction do the same in reverse from center. each disk needs to be 4 to 5 inches apart. you can add rock wool on the one next to the center. You will need to adapt from 4" pvc to the 10" then back to 4" on the outlet. wrap with bubble wrap on the outside will help some also.

This is sort what a car muffler system looks like inside ... they bring in a 2.5 to 3 inch pipe if you ever cut one apart you will see this sort of pattern.

[gene]

Bob . I am sure that the curtains work like those in a movie theater . Sound travels in waves that is why they say that if you use a room in a room make sure that the walls are NOT parallel to each other or it will have a drum effect .

[richards]

I had to get a city business license which required permission from anyone living within 200-feet of my home. Along with the "no customers on premise" and "no employees" rules, the noise restriction limited construction type noise be limited to daylight hours. In the Summer, that was defined as 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Replacing the Porter-Cable router with a spindle greatly reduced the noise, Because I normally only cut sheet goods, I added a sheet of MDF between the base board and the the spoil board. That deadened a lot of the noise.

[propellers]

I started my company 35 years ago in my basement and had no problem with neighbors or the City and didn't even know it was against code to run a Commercial operation at a Residential site. I had a garage theft and reported it to the Insurance company and they paid for it, but when the adjuster came by he asked about my machines..not knowing any better and pride for my little company I told him I was making and selling items from my home..a week later without warning the Good Hands people at Nationwide Insurance cancelled my Home Owners Policy due to a commercial operation from my Home. I relocated and found a new Insurance Company. I've also seen Companies that have the overhead of owning a building and having the additional expenses turn in home operations when they feel they are footing the bill of a stand alone buisness and the Home operator under bids their work. If you know you are illegal...don't tell anyone about your operation..either its a re-model job or hobby...its against our pride but putting up with the reports and possible courts will make your life miserable.

[waterwheelman]

My business has operated out of my shop in a residential neighborhood for 15 years. We have a very nice neighbor hood. If someone needs a cabinet or chair or whatever repaired I do it for very little to nothing. This makes for very friendly neighbors. They all refer to my shop as their neighborhood repair shop. I do have a business license. This city also requires a home occupation permit. Anything to get more money from small businesses.
With that all said I do have one neighbor that has made life miserable for me and others within his sight. I have had to explain my business operation to many city code enforcement officers through the years. Each time I have been found to be in compliance. Every time I load up a new project to deliver and install, he comes out of his house and stands on the sidewalk to take pictures of us. I have no idea what he thinks he is going to do with them. Quit frankly I and all the other neighbors think he has a screw loose, and needs to be in an asylum.
From the curb of my property the noise my machinery makes is no louder than a house hold vacuum cleaner.

[myxpykalix]

This same neighbor that i had no problem with for 25 years till a large limb fell from their tree and destroyed my van and tore up my gutter refused to call their insurance and pay for the damage and my insurance wouldn't pay.

I asked them to at least get someone to come over and cut the big limb up (the size of a healthy tree) and they refused. Well you know the little angel that sits on one shoulder and the little devil that sits on the other? I listened to the little devil....
I called a friend who owns a tree service and I spent a few hours cutting the limb into manageable pieces and he parked his chipper in the yard and they got their limb back only in a big pile of shreds spit back over the fence in their yard.

We haven't spoken in the last 5 years. I only wish i had thought of taping it and uploading to youtube.
The morale of the story is....karma is a b!tch, and you do like others have said about being friendly but there are some people that you will never please.

[kubotaman]

Jack unfortunately your neighbor is correct! That is called an "Act of God". What a crock but I do like how you handled it. Great as far as I am concerned.

[genek]

In Kentucky if a tree falls onto someones else property and they are responsible for the repairs, you might have to take them to court but in the end they have to pay.

[gerryv]

My business has operated out of my shop in a residential neighborhood for 15 years. We have a very nice neighbor hood. If someone needs a cabinet or chair or whatever repaired I do it for very little to nothing. This makes for very friendly neighbors. They all refer to my shop as their neighborhood repair shop. I do have a business license. This city also requires a home occupation permit. Anything to get more money from small businesses.
With that all said I do have one neighbor that has made life miserable for me and others within his sight. I have had to explain my business operation to many city code enforcement officers through the years. Each time I have been found to be in compliance. Every time I load up a new project to deliver and install, he comes out of his house and stands on the sidewalk to take pictures of us. I have no idea what he thinks he is going to do with them. Quit frankly I and all the other neighbors think he has a screw loose, and needs to be in an asylum.
From the curb of my property the noise my machinery makes is no louder than a house hold vacuum cleaner.

Next time you're doing a load, try to have a kid or two with you. When he comes out to take pictures complain to the authorities that he's taking pictures of children... ohh, that's mean.

[myxpykalix]

Daryl,
You are correct about "Act of God"....however that does not apply if you have had prior warnings about a hazardous condition that your property is creating.
And i had sent them a letter prior warning them. It was more the attitude they displayed of "we're not even going to call our insurance"...

Hey Daryl if you like how i handled that, sometime i'll tell you the story of how i paid a lawyer $326.00 in pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters, 63 pounds of coins dumped on his desk:eek: lawyers are arrogant pricks and that one was a favorite memory i have.:D

[kubotaman]

Thanks for the good laugh!!!!

[bcondon]

Sorry you feel that way Jack... The last lawyer I used charged me $30 over water rights at the camp... He made my neighbor go away after they called in the code enforcement office (also a good guy) so we could enjoy the summer.

I gave him a really nice fly fishing book because he loved the sport...

Realistically, lawyers are the most regulated profession and 99% are great people but every profession has a few sleaze balls.

Thanks
Bob