Information on sign pricing

[jerbear66]

Where can I find some information on how to price signs? The other question that I have is regarding an hourly rate for the machines. From time to time people in my industry will ask me to cut out some parts for them with their material. They give me a good DXF file which I convert easily to a toolpath, but I am never sure what to charge them for "machine" time.

[Andy (Unregistered Guest)]

We charge an hourly rate of around $80. For sign pricing the best thing to do is get a trade magazine and see what the established trade cnc folks are offering.

Pricing mainly depends on where you are and what you're market is like in terms of competition- the more you have the tighter the pricing.

You can make money in the sign trade as most sign shops have vinyl cutter only- but you might find that are hope less when it comes to understanding proper routed sign work and what it takes and should cost

[phil_o]

Can you suggest a trade magazine and where to get it?

[Andy (Unregistered Guest)]

I think Sign Builder and signs of the times are big in the US- I'm in the UK so my mags aren't relevant- sadly.

Try http://signweb.com for more information.

I know that in the UK the going rate for say a 2ft high 5mm thick Plex letter is £15ish- trade. Retail they recon on a markup of +40% on this.

[dmidkiff]

Try www.signwriterusa.com (http://www.signwriterusa.com). This is a pricing guide. Hope this helps.

[donchapman]

SignCraft Magazine (signcraft.com) is by far the best trade publication for small shops like mine. I have almost all of their 25 years of issues and they are an encyclopedia of signmaking knowledge unavailable anywhere else.
Like this ShopBot forum, the best info comes from others doing what you do or strive to do and every issue of SignCraft is mainly sign shop owners describing what they do.

SignCraft's annual sign pricing guide does not specifically include CNC routed signs, but their prices for sandblasted signs are comparable to my CNC routed sign prices.

[phil_o]

Dave the www.signwriterusa.com (http://www.signwriterusa.com) link doesn't work.

[kerrazy]

Phil,
try L{www.signwritersusa.com (http://www.signwritersusa.com)}

[superior]

Hey guys, let me tell you a story about "Signwriters Guide To Easier Pricing". In 1989 I was president of the Oklahoma Sign Association. At our annual meeting, we invited Jack Rumph, the publisher of the above mentioned book, to be our guest speaker. At the time I believe he was residing in Montana. I picked him up at Will Rogers World Airport in OKC and brought him home with me for two days prior to the meeting. During this time, we spent a lot of time just chatting about him, his book, and his life. He certainly had a world of knowledge about the sign indusry, and was only too happy to share it. At the Saturday night formal dinner, Jack wowed us with his knowledge, with and charm. He is about 6' 6" tall, and can really lay it on. He asked us questions about our shop operation, and made suggestions on "how do you get paid for this ?" that most of us had never thought of pricing into a job, i.e., rags, cleaning supplies, etc.
To make a long story short, the knowledge in his book(s) is right on, and very worthwhile to use. We certainly use it, almost like a bible. It seems we never get questioned about prices, when we pull "the book" down and open it right in front of the customer, much like the shop rate in a service center. Amazing........
Finally, Jack told me he tried to build in at least 30% profit on EVERY part of the job. If we would all do at least this, the $20K annual insurance bill would be a lot easier to pay.
I just wanted to put a face with the name, seems we all find it a little easier to believe and understand someone with some real credability about them. I would certainly encourage you to at least take a look at one of his books. And, if you decide to purchase it, by all means USE IT. Don't hesitate to open it and show the customer what it says.Remember, it will only make you more money, and, make our professon a little more professional. Oh, and Don..I couldn't agree more with you about Sign Craft magazine. Seems my magazine storage is poppin' at the seams also.
Again, just wanted to elaborate a bit about someone who has made a very great contribution to our industry. And, Jack, if you are out there............I still think you came from a long line of very good Pentecostal Holiness Revival Preachers ! Thanks for sharing your time with me.
Doug Strickland

[kerrazy]

Doug,
That is some good sage advice, that almost every owner of a shopBot should heed.
We all seem to be making signs so hec you may as well get paid right for it.

I just finished spending a couple of hours with my "bible" as I am currently pricing out two real big guilded dimensional pieces. One is 28ft long and the other one is 15ft long.
Jack and the folks at Sign Writers do a real thorough job on their guide and even have pricing based on using a CNC which is rare.
And of course I draw a lot of my inspiration and Drive from all those great contributors in Sign Craft.
Dale

[dmidkiff]

Phil,
Sorry the link did not work. The one Dale posted seems to work.
Thanks Doug for the insite.
Dave

[maurice]

Thank you everyone for the excellent information on trade magazines and pricing guides. Does anyone have any links for Canadian comparables in pricing guides?

[kerrazy]

Use the above listed guide. as Canada does not have all the resources available to us, We end up paying US dollars to by materials from The US and even some euipment, so just use the numbers directly from the US pricing guide. This will help with shipping and duty on items. Over the course of the year it all balances out. You will still be charging them in Cdn dollars not US.
Dale

[matt_p]

All good advice! And SignCraft is incredible, I look forward to every issue.
If only everyone would price machine time, services and signs accordingly.
Last year I was doing thousands per month in wholesale cutting for other local sign companies, that is until a local scenic production company bought a new gerber sabre and went around offering work @ $30 per hour!
Needless to say they have swiped all my best customers and made me look like a money hungry operator at the same time.
Luckily, they of course they have no experience and their work is poor. time will tell if I ever can win back the lost customers.
The sign industry in this area is polluted with "price whores" who will lie, cheat and sell the job at nearly cost to get a job, then jack and string along the customer.

So any advice for me in this situation?

[steve_wms]

He who charges the least goes out of business first.

[mikejohn]

How come Walmart is the biggest?

[benchmark]

Hi Mike

They buy a lot of stuff from China, then sell it in LARGE volumes.

Paul

[mikejohn]

And the Chinese charge the very least, and have the biggest manufacturing growth anywhere.
But, we've been down this road before, and our comments fell on deaf ears then and I doubt anything different would happen if we pursued this discussion again
!!

............Mike

[gus]

If you can price your product so it will sell in your target market at a price that will give you a return on your investment that you can live on then life should be good. Right now life is good for the folks in China selling into the "World Market". It is not so much a matter of charging more or less than someone else as it is charging enough. And right now enough in China seems to be alot less than enough for most of us. Walmart does not always charge the least but they make sure they always sell at a high profit and tell the customer they are getting the best deal around and folks beat a path to the door, that is how they got be be as large as they are.

Now winters are long here in Northern Minnesota and things get a bit slow and I have this big old chest freezer that I like to fill up so I can eat well when the snow gets deep. Now I could: (A) sit on the deck with the .58 Hawkin and wait for the first moose that comes along and fill the freezer with moose meet. or (B) Plant some spuds, beans, corn and snow peas (love them snow peas), go fishing (smoke some, pickel the darn northerns), hunt some grouse and duck and then shoot three of the darn deer that have had their noses in the garden all summer. That will more than fill the freezer.

I like plan B the best.

As to pricing your work,trade magazines and pricing guides are all well and good but you need to look around to see what the going price is in YOUR market is. Don't just market one product if you can help it and never ever have one customer be your whole market.

No new news here I just felt like adding my 2 cents , and there is talk of getting rid of the penney as a coin so it must not be worth much.

[mikejohn]

Ted
"If you can price your product so it will sell in your target market at a price that will give you a return on your investment that you can live on then life should be good." says it all for me in this whole 'high price-low price' argument.
It simply doesn't matter what the next guy is charging, if you can accomplish your stated goal.

.............Mike