Baltic Birch vs Birch

[twelchPTM]

Okay so this may seem like a silly question...

Here in inner city Philadelphia our lumber Yards are closing like crazy and the ones that are still open are carrying less and less materials on hand. This makes it hard for me to get certain materials. I am not in a large production shop and often can't purchase enough of a certain item to get it, leaving me no option but to stick with what is in stock at the local HD or Lowes.

I often see alot of posts about Baltic Birch. I have been using Birch plywood for sometime but am wondering what (if any) the differences are. Is it worth the long drive to get the few sheets I would be able to purchase at a time?

[Brady Watson]

Harbor Sales will deliver one sheet overnight to you for free. They carry MDO, which I think is as good or better in some ways than the Birch...and cheaper...up to 1.375" thick.

-B

[twelchPTM]

I remember you saying something to me before about Harbor Sales. Overnight and free make a huge difference. But I am still curious is there a difference between the Baltic Birch plywood and plain Birch Plywood?

[paul_z]

Baltic birch has more ply layers and fewer voids. It is extremely strong and cuts well. It typically comes in 5' X 5' sheets which can be a problem.

Unfortunately, like most plywood, the quality of Baltic birch is dropping as the years go by. Still, I use it often.

Paul Z

[ron_moorehead]

Check out this youtude video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6t1uxAvrT4

[twelchPTM]

thanks, so same wood, better quality panel right?

[Brady Watson]

More layers + less voids = better panel.

I would still check out HarborSales.net and inquire about MDO. There is an occasional minor void here & there, but overall it is very good & super flat. Instead of face veneers it has phenolic paper faces that take paint readily. It is really good stuff & can be used outdoors if sealed properly. I use it for the support board on all of my machines.

-B

[steve_g]

so same wood, better quality panel right?

The interior plys of BB are also Birch... Not necessarily so with other panels...
SG

[dlcw]

You can also look to see if any of the remaining suppliers have Appleply or can get it. It is similar to BB but is made in the USA (Oregon). It comes in 4x8 sheets instead of the P.I.T.A. 5x5 sheets that BB comes in. Has number of plys equivalent to BB and is a little more per square foot then BB.

[bleeth]

There are huge differences in various Birch ply's. What is best for your use depends much on the specific end product. Baltic Birch, as has been noted, has more ply layers and also is birch all the way through and is usually rotary cut whole piece face. The faces are typically nice looking, but are rated B-B. The typical birch ply at big orange is a lower quality whole piece face and the inner layers are god knows what type of wood.
The highest quality, typical for the exposed parts of cabinets to be stained and/or clear-coated would be A-1 Flat cut bookmatched white birch and is carried only by specialty cabinet product suppliers and may come on veneer core (plywood) mdf, or just as veneer to be custom laid up on whatever sub-strate you choose.
Right now, the typical birch ply readily available out there is the cheapest of the cheap cabinet making product and is usually covered with something else or to be seen inside the cabinets only with a pre-finished clear coat. The cheapest is import (read Chinese here) and domestic (USA or Canada produced) is more expensive and SHOULD be on better quality core.

The MDO (medium density overlay) that Brady speaks of is made to be painted. It is an exterior grade plywood (using glue that is supposed to handle weather affects) and the surface, or surfaces if two sided, is covered with a waterproofed paper product. Great for painting, and in fact, was originally developed and used extensively in the sign industry. I've been using it a lot lately for overhead framing panels on large boats that then get finish panels put on them and it is not as nice as it used to be. I would not use it as a material to be veneered for a cabinet as it is not worth the money for that.

Don's point about Appleply is a good one, but unfortunately it is not widely available. I love that stuff, but when I moved back East from Washington State discovered no-one carries it anywhere near my area.

[scottp55]

Lowe's carries Appleply and it's available in several different precut sizes in 1/2 and 3/4". Unfortunately it's special order and 1-2 week wait here in Maine.Looks like it's shipped to and cut in NYC area central distribution facility(24x36" is perfect for Desktops). Only birch veneer available(shame).

[Ger21]

You can buy Appleply direct online, but it's not cheap.

http://www.buyappleply.com/

[Ajcoholic]

I buy all my Baltic Birch (6mm, 12mm, 18mm and 24mm) in 4x8 sheets.

My supplier, who stocks both the 5x5 and 4x8 will get me pretty much what I want :D

I use a lot of 6mm and 12mm regularly. The Canadian plywood I buy for cabinets (either particle core or poplar ply core) is a completely different product.

BB is great for high strength uses, and you can sand and finish the edges as-is. No need for tape, veneer or solid edging.

I also do a lot of solid color lacquers over it. Great for drawer boxes, inserts, etc.

For cabinet grade Birch(as in making kitchen cabinet carcases, ect) as was stated - the better looking stuff is a flat sawn white face or even a rotary WP white face on a good sound core.

Up here, MDO is BC fir core - not the best product for making cabinets IMO. And it is quite pricey - a 4x8 sheet of 1/2" (12mm) BB costs me about $50, while a 1/2" sheet of 4x8 MDO is nearly $80.

AJC

[steve_g]

BB is also available in Dallas in 4X8 sheets, but has an 50% up charge per sq. ft. and is only used when absolutely necessary!
SG

[aschutsky]

Thomas - I'm also in the Philly area and have been looking for the same. I found that Russell plywood (reading, PA and new castle, DE) carries BB in 5x5 and 4x8 sheets as well. In general the 5x5's B/BB 18mm go for about ~49 dollars and the 4x8's around 90 bucks a sheet in single sheet pricing. Industrial plywood also sells 5x5 sheets for the same price and has very reasonable delivery fees. I'll have to check out Harbor sales to see what they are getting for something similar. Let me know what you find out as well.

[twelchPTM]

wow, okay here goes...

I looked at the MDO and it does seem like a useful product but I don't do alot of paint work.

I mostly use plywood for creating odd shaped framework and the Birch ply from lowes holds up just fine.

I really like using the birch plywood to make fun signs and plaques because it is very easy to imitate other the coloration of other higher end woods. I think this is where the baltic birch would come in, it would save me a lot of patching on the edges.

Harbor sales won't show me the prices unless I create an account, I'll do that later.

minimum quantities often prevent me from ordering, under normal conditions I only use one maybe 2 sheets at a time, I don't have the space to store any extras.

I seem to remember Appleply being something we used when i worked in the fixture shop way back when...

[aschutsky]

I created an account with harbor sales, 4x8 3/4 BB pricing is 135 a sheet for me. Whew. I think I'm going to stick with 5x5 panels ripped down to 4x5. :cool:

[Ajcoholic]

Thats weird - my cost per sq foot on 4x8 VS 5x5 is not a whole lot of difference..

If I buy a whole lift, it is negligible.