Trupan Test in Water

[joe]

Greetings Router Heads

Last Friday I cut off a couple of pieces of Trupan for a water test. One of these I double coated with Shellac and left the other raw. On Monday I'll take them to the bandsaw and whack them in half. Then take close ups to show the water penetration.

I may do the same with Extira and MDF if there's enough interest.

All of should do our on tests on materials. Each part of the country is so different it would be best to see for yourself. The one untested part of this experiment is temperature and location of the Moon.

[scottp55]

Interested in Extira Joe. Nice little test:) Would love to see "big box MDF" vs the other better quality MDF's even if it was only size change/humidity change. Thanks

[Jerome]

Joe
I put two pieces of trupan in water along with a piece of plum Creek mdf. I left them for 4 days. The trupan gained about a sixteenth of an inch. The plum Creek swelled about one quarter inch. Plum Creek is high quality mdf but according to my test it doesn't like water.

[steve_g]

I’m questioning the validity of a water soak test… None of the MDF products except Exteria are intended to be water proof. The Plum Creek product is a higher density and better refined material, so it stands to reason it would swell more. If anything, the lighter weight Trupan has an advantage in that it can absorb more resins or water proof materials post machining.
Medex and Plum Creek machine beautifully and make wonderful interior signage! I understand Joe C’s disenchantment with HDU sign foams (hail and vandal issues) But am not convinced that a panacea in MDF has arrived! BTW, PVC passes any water soak test but has other issues…
SG

[joe]

Jerome

Good for you. Glad to see others doing their tests. That way you have first hand knowledge.

Steve,

Were not looking for a panacea. What I'm suggesting is this material is excellent for letters. What other tests would you recommend. I'm all ears. Better than that what other materials would you suggest.

I haven't mentioned MDF Light. It looks and feels like Trupan but don't be fooled. My local wholesaler shipped us this as a replacement for Trupan. What a disaster. It fell apart with moisture.

O, Trupan is for letters not for panels.

Here's a few left over letters cut for the concrete industry. Yes they are backwards. That's what it takes for casting. Once set in place the concrete is poured and they set in moisture for a couple of days. When starting out I soaked them in transmission oil as a water proof barrier. While that kept them together, the oil leached out in the concrete. Then we went with epoxy, then poly acrylic but finally settled on shellac.

[kevin]

Joe for concrete shellac you've had good results
Why I ask I used water based a disaster concrete stuck .Then oil based Tremclad good results .

[joe]

Kevin,

That product might work but it can't be a surface material. The letters must end up extra smooth. For that reason we spend extra time sanding. As you know shellac sands like a dream.

Perhaps I should post a few photo's of the finished concrete products. Keep an eye out for the Decembers "Sign Craft" magazine. I've posted a few of them there.

[Jerome]

Steve
I wasn't trying to stir up controversy with my water test post. Your response is one reason I don't post much.

[steve_g]

Jerome…
Please, please post more often! If my response sounded hurtful or disrespectful, I sincerely apologize! That definitely wasn’t my intent…
There is a true materials dilemma in the sign industry and I don’t know what the answer is, and we won’t find it unless we ask each other questions!
There is a distinct possibility that I don’t understand the intent of the “water soak” test, and am curious where this may go!
As I see it, putting uncoated MDF in water only tells us what we already know… However, soaking letters in shellac or other resins, then cutting them open to see the penetration may give us new information!
I continue to look forward to your input!
SG

[scottp55]

Jerome, Please don't take it personally as I'm positive Steve didn't mean it that way. He "plays" and "experiments" as much as any of us:)
More a discussion of suitability of various materials and curiosity exploring "What ifs".
Plum Creek I haven't found up here as well as other higher quality MDF's, so personally nice to see the expansion factor comparison. Using an unsealed MDF spoilboard here(hey-what did I know) and getting movement due to fixed fences on X,Y 0,0 of up to a 1/16" on a Desktop just leaving material on overnight. Nice to see Plum Creek probably wouldn't help the problem. BBPly probably next spoilboard with 1/4" REAL spoilboard glued on top like Kyle S.

[joe]

Happy Election Day,

Taking a break from the election results I'm posting a couple of photo's showing the Trupan results.

This material started out at .50" thickness. The uncoated piece ended up at .524". The piece coated with shellac didn't change.

The odd thing about this experiment, it shows how Trupan can swell, a little but holds together very well. That may be due to the South American Pine which it's composed. Doubtful that the adhesive used in fabrication is the only factor.


I've also posted some pix showing some of the concrete signs. This is a good market but must be promoted. If you have a concrete plant close by it may be worth the time to make a few sample letter to leave behind. That's what I did and it paid off.

[steve_g]

Joe…
I’m intrigued with the shellacked Trupan results! Do you have any 3D or prism type letters in the field that you’ve treated this way?
Earlier in this thread you asked me what material suggestions I had… I’ve been using 40lb PB without problems… Have you had any issues with this high a density Urethane foam?
SG

[joe]

Steve,

Just for you, I'll post signs using this material. There are few, almost none, that are 3D carved, except for the backgrounds. My work is 2.5D.

About 40lb HDU. I'm at a complete loss to find any use of it. HDU has been replaced by PVC which is four times less expensive and much tougher.. Here's another issue with HDU. No matter what density, fine delicate extended scripts and scrolls can easily break. O, by the way you can save lots of money by purchasing 30lb Duna which has a higher density.

[scottp55]

Thanks for pics Joe.:)
Couldn't quite tell from pic the penetration though?

[joe]

Scott,

Me either. On other tests it's been better defined. If you have a piece perhaps you could also do a test to show us what you come up with.

[joe]

Here a few signs with trupan letters that have stood the test of time.