V Carving Letters for Shop Samples [Archive]

joe

11-18-2014, 08:51 PM

Scott,

Good point. Delicate lettering like this must be done on a dead flat surface.

Also let me say, if the V is too deep the beauty goes away pronto. The bit should only kiss the surface on the smaller lines. A panel can be sometimes be saved by a light sanding with a belt sander. Nothing wrong with that. I often use it in the finishing process.

Inlay's aren't for me. Why not give us a sample?

scottp55

11-18-2014, 09:04 PM

Vivaldi is as tricky as I want to get at the moment Joe:)
I always have to sand a little more than I want to get the glue Gone.

cowboy1296

11-19-2014, 08:58 AM

I certainly understand the flat surface. A lot of times i use the bot to plane the board during cutting. But it also works being projected on a 3-d surface. Even then i might play with the "z" at the bot to get the desired depth.

I really like those fonts Joe. I thought that i was going to meet you in Colorado a couple of years back but it did not work out.

joe

11-19-2014, 07:30 PM

Excellent projects fellows. Wish we had more work like this posted on a regular basis.

scottp55

11-21-2014, 06:16 AM

Joe, Just wondering if there was script type font like Vivaldi/Freestyle Script or that Waterford of yours, that didn't require massive zooming and node editing to eliminate overlapped vectors and other "Gotcha's"? Not quite so important on VCarving, but they really seem to bite you in the ..., when doing inlays.
I now know that "Tweaking" is almost always necessary for it to look it's best, but hate to recommend a font I like to Kirk at second Desktop that's going to require a ton of work as he's about 6 months behind me on the "Node" learning curve.
Be nice to only have to worry about spacing and such basic elements.
Sorry to bug you, (I have been searching in my "spare" time, but thought you might know off the top of your head).
Thanks,
scott

joe

11-21-2014, 12:55 PM

Scott,

Now you got me laughing!

In todays market there's thousands of fonts. Not long ago you needed to develop lettering skills. Now we've grown so lazy even node editing becomes a stop sign.

Look, there's no shortcut for creative lettering.

scottp55

11-21-2014, 01:11 PM

Darn!!! :)

Chuck Keysor

11-22-2014, 12:34 AM

Joe, that "Waterford" is a real beauty! It is so simple, yet elegant, and provides more visual pleasure than the vast majority of even well designed signs!

I read somewhere that art is the creation of beauty, and taste is its admiration. Your elegant Waterford is art.

Thanks, Chuck

Chuck Keysor

12-03-2014, 05:02 PM

Hello Joe. I greatly admired your Waterford V-carving. So, I thought I'd see if I could do something similar. I found out that it isn't easy! I spent an hour in Illustrator just looking at different fonts, then scratching my head wondering how to move from font based text, to something with swoops and flourishes.

I finally figured I would just type out the name Koester (my sister's married name), and then just start drawing, with the hopes that something would become obvious. Even though I am pretty good with the Illustrator pen tool, I thought I would start out with Illustrator's pencil tool, and with the mouse, write in cursive on top of the typed Koester so that the spacing of the letters would be correct. Then I simply edited my vector lines. Then I used the "width tool", and finally I tried to add some flourishes which I did with Illustrator's pencil tool, some of the pen tool and lots of node editing.

I think I spent 4 hours, just on the drawing, and trying to fudge this. Though next time, it will be faster, as I now have a handle on this. But even with all that time, the results are still nowhere near as nice as your Waterford! And oddly, your Waterford makes me think of Colonial Williamsburg, and my attempt looks kind of Victorian. Maybe because I put on an extra swoosh that isn't attached to any letters, it got a Victorian feel. (I do have a lot of Dover Victorian clip art books, and it would have been easy to push the text in that direction. But since I was trying to make something like your Waterford, I resisted the temptation.)

My example is not as nice as I would like it to be, compared to your example. Suggestions as to how to look at this so I can identify the needed fixes would be appreciated.

Thanks, Chuck

joe

12-03-2014, 07:46 PM

Chuck,

Good for you. Thumbs up.

I've attached a little panel for you. It was done in AI but came off in fifteen minutes. The trick is using fonts with Glyphs. Illustrator has a fly-out panel with the alternative letters & swirls. This one was done with LHF Desire. It makes this kind of work childs play.

scottp55

12-03-2014, 08:04 PM

Really Nice Chuck!!:)
Make that 2 thumbs up:)

Chuck Keysor

12-04-2014, 10:04 PM

Thank you Joe and Scott!

Joe, I had no idea that some fonts had optional letters with such swirls. I have over 200 fonts, and I carefully opened the first 100 one by one with the glyph panel in Illustrator. And none of my fonts, (all my fancy Victorian fonts were purchased from Dover) had the fancy swirl options. There were plenty of options for technical and linguistic markings, but no artistic options! Rats...

Mayo Pardo sent me some links to YouTube. This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Rb6_qC5tk showed me what you did. I was quite amazed. In less than 5 minutes, they selected various character options and really souped their text up in high style.

On one hand, I took some pleasure in saying I had drawn my own fonts and swirls, but the time it took was crazy, and I still have some bugs to fix that could soak up lots more time.

I looked on the Internet and in Letterhead Fonts for Waterford font, and found nothing. What font was used to make your example Waterford, and where can it be purchased?

Thanks for opening my eyes as to how professional/artistic results are achieved in a timely fashion. Chuck

joe

12-05-2014, 07:30 AM

Chuck,

Now you have a whole new way to look at fonts. As you now know not all letter styles come with Glyphs and that may be worth considering in the future purchases

There's no substitute for hand work though. My creative letter styles are started with pencil drawings. From there they are scanned and cleaned up. I'm not able to use the computer for much but cleaning up the finished piece. I may do a little video doing a Stadler brush. I'd urge you to visit Youtube's calligraphy demo's.

Good link Mayo sent you.

Here's an example of how hand lettering can be done in a less technical way. This kind of work is done by hand.

joe

12-05-2014, 07:41 AM

Got a kick out of this one. It was done for a Letterhead Meet back in 1989. This was one of my first Stadler Pen works.

scottp55

12-05-2014, 08:05 AM

Always loved that "Hemingway" sign Joe! I remember it distinctly from when I saw it when I was first starting (pretty good comment as I sometimes forget when I last ate:) ).
I was searching the other day for the color combo you used for the finished sign(I had thought it was cedar-so maybe why I couldn't find it with a quick search).
Do you have a large picture of it finished in place? Like to stick it in my photos.
Not having a graphics program, some of what you guys mention sails over my head. Nice to know that you use hand and scanning sometimes (just wish my "hand" didn't resemble a refrigerator crayon drawing from first grade:) ).
scott

joe

12-05-2014, 09:07 AM

Chuck,

When I was doing my undergraduate work I was hired by the Univ. to sign all the names for all the graduates certificates. I had practiced my Spencerian script all through highschool.

The attachment is a good example of how it's done. Not that hard and fun to practice.

Scott,

I'll post a full size photo of the Hemingways in a day or so. Better yet, I'll send it to you direct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6it1FVcX0tw

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

scottp55

12-05-2014, 09:52 AM

"Not that hard and fun to practice" The man says:)
Even making the ultimate sacrifice(Espresso) never in a million years for me:)
Thanks Joe-Maybe wallpaper for control computer.

Chuck Keysor

12-05-2014, 01:13 PM

Hello Joe and Scott.

Joe, thanks for the added examples, and the link to the Spencerian script video. I don't think I could ever manually execute something so elegant. Also, I have no idea as to what a Stadler pen is. Maybe this is another chance for you to further broaden my horizons.

Like Scott, I don't have that artistic touch, my writing looks too uneven, as an inherent flaw I don't think I could ever shake. That is part of what made me feel the need to learn Illustrator (I took a semester class in it at the local community college), to offset my poor dexterity. Scott, that may be a point for you to consider, as you said your handwriting was not any good.

Sorry, I have to run, but I wanted to get in a quick reply. Thanks again, Chuck!

joe

12-07-2014, 12:33 PM

Chuck,

Naw, you have all the right stuff for this kind of work. It has little to do with dexterity or shaky hands. The skill is knowing what a proper letter shapes should be. Then a little practice. But most of all you need a burning desire.

Youtube is full of video's showing the necessary practice. Fifteen minutes a day for one month will bring a skill level that will amaze you.

Once again, purchasing fonts won't bring you to a level of drawing can bring.

David Iannone

12-08-2014, 11:58 PM

Chuck Keysor

12-09-2014, 01:12 AM

Hello Joe. Attached is another exercise in drawing script based upon your Waterford example. I also drew this in Illustrator using the pen tool, and then used the width tool to selectively adjust the stroke width.

Even little issues like connecting the y to the s caused problems that I couldn't satisfactorily resolve. The Waterford example suggested that the y not even be connected to the s. But with Keysor, it looked wrong, as it made the script seem chopped in two. In Waterford, between the corresponding f and the o, there is a break, but the waterf is connected to ord horizontally/visually by the over and under flowing flourishes. I couldn't fix this visual problem unless I directly connected those parts with the pen tool. But that connection is still awkward, no matter how I fiddled. Oh well, it is practice as you suggested.

Scott, I would not recommend buying or leasing any software. I would recommend taking a class at your community college. That will force you to practice, as well as to push you to learn how to use the software. You will come out of the class with a basic competence, from which you can proceed to fit your needs. In such a setting, you can buy or lease the software at a much lower cost until you can decide if the purchase is worth it after your class is done.

And since you are in a blended graphics/CNC mode, having basic competence in some form of Illustrator (and Photoshop) is really pretty important.

Thanks, Chuck

Mayo

12-09-2014, 05:43 AM

For anyone interested in the fine art of penmanship, flourishing, etc.
I just happened to find this site and it's a real treasure trove of examples! This link is one of the rare books they digitized.

http://www.iampeth.com/pdf/portfolio-ornate-penmanship

pappybaynes

12-09-2014, 07:02 AM

Scott,
For a graphics program you could download a free month trial for Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw. Just google their names, go to their site and find that product and follow the free download instructions. If you like them, they offer month to month subscription based, or yearly subscription based payments now so you don't have to come out of pocket for the whole program all at once. Also with subscription based you are always on the latest version and don't have to pay upgrade fees. Try one out for a month, you may be surprised. I personally do most all my layouts and drawing in Flexisign then export to aspire for toolpathing. They now also offer subscription based too.

Dave
But they also have you over a barrel...you don't have a hard copy of the software - it's all in the cloud...not everyone wants and can afford the latest and greatest...it's like making a minimum payment on a credit card...you'll never pay it off!!! Great deal for Adobe (don't get me wrong, I love their products - just don't like them having the control)
Dick

joe

12-09-2014, 07:33 AM

Mayo,

Thanks for posting the portfolio link. It's the best I've seen.

Joe

Chuck Keysor

12-09-2014, 11:44 AM

Hello Dick. I agree with you about the "Cloud"/renting as a bad deal. Adobe announced that after CS6, they would not sell the hard copy of software for their graphics design software. Maybe that was a sales come-on, but it made me upgrade from CS2 to CS6.

The only advantage I see to the "Cloud"/renting, is that there are people who have been known to spend a ton of money on software that they don't use. :( In that case, I, I mean they, would have been better off with the "Cloud", so that one could quickly escape without long-term remorse.

Thanks Mayo for the link to the design examples. The only one I had been using was Joe's Waterford which I still find fascinating!

Chuck

pappybaynes

12-09-2014, 12:55 PM

Good point Chuck - I know one of those people who spend money on software they didn't use - know him well!!

David Iannone

12-09-2014, 04:16 PM

Chuck / Dick,
I agree with you both. ALL of my software is paid off and I have a Dongle for the ones that require it. Chuck hit the nail on the head.

I own my 2001 White Ford F150 that I take care of and give it usual maintenance.

My wife drives a leased 2013 Lexus with all the latest electronics. She prefers to have a new vehicle every 3 years and never worry about breaking down or warranties "everything is covered". I don't want her to break down on the side of the road either since she travels a lot of miles every day out of town for her job as a Home Hospice Nurse. Get it?

Their is a place and reason for every type of deal out there. Take it leave it.....

Mayo,
Thanks for the link.

Dave

joe

12-09-2014, 07:13 PM

Ok boys,

The only way I can see to get around the Adobe's rental program is to go with other software. Ultimately Adobe will come out with better add on's and will keep up with all the latest changes in windows. This isn't a stagnant field and it's important to keep up.

Like you guys I hesitated thinking we were being had. I still think this so since no one knows the future costs. So we're stuck. I can't get along without Illustrator and Photoshop. For what I'm doing they're the best.

All of us have different needs. For that reason I can't recommend joining up.

scottp55

12-10-2014, 07:27 AM

Thanks for all the advice people.
Have downloaded free AI and Corel but never had enough enough time to take it seriously before it expired. Kirk took College class so has student edition(but can't use for business) so if anybody gets a copy, he will.
Do enjoy seeing how you guys are doing it though, so keep posting please.
Thanks again,
scott

bob_s

12-10-2014, 08:24 AM

Scott
In my opinion the best way to learn illustrator or Photoshop is to use Lynda.com It will cost you $25 per month, but you can turn it on and off by the month Take a look at the courses, they are broken into 7 or 8 minute videos Every course has a few to look at as a free guest this stuff was my profession before I retired to do woodwork. The quality of these courses and the depth is outstanding
I have no connection to this company
Bob

David Iannone

12-10-2014, 09:33 AM

joe

12-10-2014, 06:11 PM

Lynda. Com is certainly one of the best for Adobe but have almost nothing on Corel. These programs are in direct competition.

If only Corel had the "Ligatures Pallet" figured out. I purchased X6 which claimed to open OT & Ligatures. Didn't work. Their X7 advertises the QR, add on, for this purpose. I'd love to hear if that works. QR stands for quick release. I'm afraid we are still stuck with Illustrator.

Photoshop also advertises it will open Ligatures. But only half way. Perhaps 30% of these will be available. Also keep in mind, free fonts, to the best of my knowledge don't come with Ligatures. To have them you'll be paying for professional letters. Most everyone on this forum wants FREE fonts. It's doubtful many Sbotters will lay out $600 bucks for Illustrator, then, in addition lay out cash for a bunch of professional fonts. It's the "Right Of Passage" for a professional. Not something the part timers are likely to do.

Here's one of my favorites. "Burgess" Stunning Ligatures

pappybaynes

12-11-2014, 07:42 AM

Bob,
That tip on Lynda.com was right on time. We are getting our daughter one of those cannon rebel Ti4 cameras for Christmas. Just checked out Lynda.com and they have tutorials for that camera and Photoshop training tailored to photography. She is just getting old enough to start learning photoshop. I'm defiantly gonna try this out for a month for her after Christmas. And they have an IPad app for it too.

Dave
Dave, if you haven't already bought the camera, I would seriously look at the Sony A6000 - a lot more camera for the money and far more technically advanced than the Canon - just as a side note -I have had Canons since the 70's...was a professional photographer shooting 35mm, 21/4, 4x5 and 8x10...getting back into it more seriously now...the learning curve for your daughter will be a lot shorter than mine! Check out "Stuck in Customs" Trey Ratcliff and/or Gary Fong...two of the many pros that have hung up their $7000 Nikons / Canons to shoot the Sony mirror-less A6000 ($600) and A7 series ($2000) cameras...check out the reviews
Dick

Chuck Keysor

12-11-2014, 12:12 PM

As to training videos, there are many hundreds, if not thousands on Youtube about Photoshop and Illustrator.

And I have some Infinite Skills training DVDs for CAD which I think are very good. They have DVDs for Illustrator and Photoshop.

Scott, as to learning Photoshop and Illustrator, I will repeat my recommendation, that you take some classes at your community college. For people like me who tend to put things off, there is nothing like having homework and tests to make you learn this material. And for people like me who have to bang their heads on the desk because they can't figure something out, having a teacher to ask is worth the tuition!

Chuck

joe

12-11-2014, 01:22 PM

Yep, yep, yep everyone should listen to Chuck.

These programs are huge and it's doubtful if many users need to know all they have to offer. Personal help can be very efficient.

Joe

David Iannone

12-16-2014, 01:20 AM

Dick,
Thanks for the info on camera, but I had already ordered it.

Joe,
You make a good point. You get what you pay for. Software, Fonts, tutorials, all just part of the fun!

Dave

Chuck Keysor

12-16-2014, 01:22 AM

Well, my previous attempt at drawing my own name in something that would at least attempt to imitate Joe's Waterford example, was not very pleasing to me. I had mentioned that it looked kind of Victorian, and that was probably due to the wild spirals. So I deleted the excessive parts of the spirals, leaving swooshes. The descending part of the Y looked like it had gotten bent, because I had tried to copy something off of the Waterford sample. So I dropped that, and just pulled around that part of the y so it looked pleasing to me.

But the horizontal line from the top right of the letter K is still not satisfying at all. I experimented all over with this in Illustrator, and nothing worked for me. Do I have to change my last name so that I can get some extra swooshing action going on, to get the interest found from the crossing o f the t and f in Waterford? Suggestions?

This one is better than the previous sample, but still not so nice as the Waterford example.

Anyway, I have carved this one, and am in the process of doing the paint filling. The wood was varnished before I carved it. And normally, I varnish again after the V-carving.

Because some of the lines were so fine, I thought, gee, I don't want to put a coat of varnish over the carved plaque before I infill with the black paint, because I'll plug up the lines. So, I did that, and immediately wrecked the plaque as some of the black paint wicked into the grain of the wood and created little black hairlines. I can fix those in Photoshop pretty well, but not on the plaque. :( I had carved two copies of the plaque, so the second one I varnished the V-carving, and will try to in-fill tomorrow.

(Note, after having done a bunch of large 3D carvings last summer, that took hours each, having a 7" x 13" plaque that carves in 4 minutes is rather surprising.)

Chuck