Signs and Sandblasting

[moell54]

Hi All,

I am reading, with quite a bit of interest, the discussions centering around sandblasting backgrounds on signs and the various sign materials in use.

Since there are lots of sign sizes and some people make lots of signs while others only make a few, here's a couple questions for the group.

What materials sand blast well and which don't. What type of sand blasting rig should be used? Is it a booth which captures the sand or is it performed outdoors or some other type of method? Are there special techniques that are used?

Thanks in advance for your comments?

Aubrey

[David Iannone]

Welcome Aubrey,

I sub out ALL my sandblasting. I tried it myself one time many years ago with a cheap sandblast rig, and I ruined the material and put the rig in the barn and found a company that would work with me. I used to like to blast Redwood and Western Red Cedar. I always ordered these panel blanks prefabbed. You have to talk to the guy who is actually blasting, and he always let me stand aside and inspect as he went along to see how deep I wanted it. The blasting process is very quick when you find a big industrial company.

Now a days, I don't do many dimensional signs, but am headed back in that directions. I am re learning the Art and am looking at using PVC going forward even with textured backgrounds (will be carved on the CNC).

Search this forum and also check out the 3D Sign forum. Both are a wealth of knowledge.

Dave

[joe]

Thanks Aubrey for your post.

I'd like give some advice on the sandblasting process but am not suggesting anyone go down this road without understanding it's difficulties. This isn't an easy road and not too profitable but extremely rewarding.

Lets begin by asking what sandblasting has to offer and why go through all the trouble. When done properly it renders sharpness that rivals laser or water-jet sharpness. But the main reason is the unrivaled beauty it reveals when using wood. In my opinion, there's little or no reason to blast HDU if you have a cnc.

Here are a few questions I'd like to cover in the next few posts:
What equipment is needed?
How fast is the process
What masks to use
To pre-paint or not
Sealers and finishes
Blasting Mediums
How much will it cost

These are a few of the topics to cover in the next few days.

[joe]

What a timely post David has given us.

He's taken the right approach by sending out his blasting. For many of us it's difficult to find a blast company but it's a good way to start. That's what I do.

The first hurdle in blasting is having a compressor with enough air. What I'm talking about is the CFM and not the PSI. CFM is the delivery, or volume of air, necessary. This gives you the depth of cut and it comes from a compressor delivering at least 50 CFM. Those are large compressors. The regular electric 5hp will only scratch the surface. Not worth the time.

The size of sandblast pot isn't very important. A 100lb unit will cut as fast and as good as a 400lb pot. The only disadvantage to the little one's is the frequency of loading up more sand.

I prefer a 185 CFM unit because it allows a larger tip such as a 1/4". That makes the job go faster. And you won't need to be as close to the sign giving a smoother blast.

I'd encourage everyone to investigate this topic by looking for a close by blasting company. I'll be suggesting methods, materials and masks as we go along.

Joe

[willnewton]

I used to work in a sign shop and did most all the blasting. We blasted glass, redwood and Signfoam.

Let me tell you something about sandblasting for hours outside in the hot summer sun in the southeast U.S.wearing a full coverall, gloves and blast helmet....

Actually, I will NOT tell you about it. Just use your imagination and instead, I will tell about the greatest day of my career there...

It was the day the boss decided we were going to sub out the blasting to a monument company and I would only have to apply a stencil, dropoff and pickup. Best. Day. EVER.

You will be surprised how affordable and timely subbing this out becomes. It is cheaper than the equipment and space requirements are 0.

Make sure to possibly take a sample, if you think the company may not be familiar with blasting your substrate.

Also, Signfoam can be CNC'd and then wire brushed and painted. It looks almost exactly like blasted and painted redwood.

This was 20 years ago and I do not remember specifics on the equipment. Our sandblasting setup was a DIY affair and required a LARGE compressor, hose/nozzle, sand hopper, and some room out back that can get very nasty!

I mostly just remember hating every second of it past the first 30 minutes. Thankfully, I had many other jobs in the shop, so did not have to do it full time. To this day, if I need blasting, I hire a professional!

[scottp55]

Good Story Will:)
I know very little about sandblasting except for sandblasting a 20X50' old brick mill building for my bicycle shop in '80. 22'ceilings with MASSIVE beams and 100 yrs old. DO remember how miserable it was and it was 3 of us doing shifts 30 minutes long, and ALWAYS swimming in the river afterwards, and STILL had Black Beauty on the shower floor afterwards:(
Last time I ever sandblasted.:)
It looked FANTASTIC, but looking back I should have paid someone If I had the cash.

[moell54]

One reason I am asking is because I am also a wood turner (Robust American Beauty lathe). I went to a three day workshop with Trent Bosch last summer in Colorado; we were turning enclosed vessels.

He has a booth setup and we masked off a Canadian Maple leaf that I had collected up in Montreal. This vessel is about 8" tall and 4" in diameter. It was turned with the grain and the growth rings were real tight. The sand blasting did a really cool job of eating out the soft material and provided a neat texture, almost like sandpaper, and the 3D is quite obvious in the light.

I don't remember the name of the masking material (green with glue backing, kinda like a heavy vinyl). Long story short, the area of the maple leaf design was untouched. A very interesting affect. The artistic texture lends itself well to southwestern scenes.

I am envisioning the use of the recoil for roughing out the general profile of various shapes; then finish cuts either on the recoil or Robust lathe followed by completing the inside of the turning by hand on the Robust lathe. Sandblasting and paint or other finish to follow.

Still brain storming.

Aub

[joe]

Thanks for the follow fellows.

Will is correct about the process with a couple of exceptions. Not only is the process hard, dirty work but it's also dangerous. Silicosis is a long term illness that comes with the work. Even when suited up, getting out of the suit leaves a person exposed to fine dust. You're better off with a sandblast cabinet. Ours was 4'X12' and the only exposure was to our gloves. His advice to find a sandblast company is spot on.

I'm also not sure a wire brush ever comes close to looking like the real thing. While a wood grain look can be simulated it never looks good enough for me. I'll be showing the effect when using a GrainFrame a little on down the road.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[moell54]

Joe,

I think I replyed about the same time you did. The example I gave a few minutes ago was for a pretty small project and the booth worked great (much lower cfm required and all blast media and wood was contained). Also dust vac. hooked up to blast cabinet.

Sounds like the answers are the same for much larger signs - outsource the sand blasting.

Thanks all for your comments,

Aub

[joe]

Good for you Aub. It's good to see artists like you posting.

I'm posting a photo of our sandblast booth. We made it from angle iron, 1/4" PVC walls and a hoola skirt for our hands to go through. It took a heck of a vac pick-up for dust removal. SB booths this size require a huge dual bag pickup otherwise viewing delicate blast detail becomes difficult.

Masks,

My favorite mask is 1/4" PVC. After cutting on the router it's screwed to the panel. Screw holes are covered by the letters. I've not been able to blast through this material so it's my mask of choice. We even used it on our blast booth for walls because it's so tough.

The other masks are rubber and I have no preference but I don't cut the mask with a plotter. It's applied directly to the sign surface. With a little brad point router bit I score the surface and pull off what's not needed. Much faster than trying to cut and line it up. I kind of hate this material because it's so expensive and easily blasted through. When blasting, if it starts to change color, watch out. It's getting ready to fail.

The final photo is one of my redwood panels showing the beauty of wood blasting. I've never been able improve on the look.

[moell54]

Joe - your work is awesome. I appreciate the treatment to wood that you have given. Please continue to "hand it down" to the rest of us as you see fit.

This kind of craft opens so many new chapters to look forward to as older chapters are closed behind us. It sure does make pending retirement from another career look like playtime to me.

Thanks,

Aubrey

[joe]

Thanks for the find words Aud.

I've made this kind of fun a lifestyle. Couldn't have chosen a better life's decision.

Media,

There are many kind of blasting materials to choose from. Not only that they come in lots of granularity. The standard has been 20/50 sand which is relatively cheap and does a good job. The down side is the dreaded Siliacoses lung disease. It's not reversible. To polish up the blasting process once the panel is complete I loved to load up the pot with white Sugar Sand. The effect would render the finest of detail. But it also isn't good for the lungs.

Once the sandblast booth was complete we were able to reclaim the media and about that time I began using Black Slag. It was cheap but didn't cut as fast but was better on the lungs. Along that time we changed over to Silicone Carbide. That would cut much faster but was awfully expensive. About that time I found out about Glass Beads which cut just as fast and not too expensive. Like other media it comes in different grades. To this day Glass Beads are my favorite.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dakers]

22930

What ever you do, do it with all your might. If you spread yourself to thin you will not be able to. However i always wanted to do something i was not doing so i started a wholesale sandblasted sign company and sold signs nationally.
So i did that with sandblasting with all my might, the big diesel compressor, clemco 600 lb, 1/4'' carbide nozzle, Air mask, air conditioner for the mask, blast room, etc.

Back then the way i layed out the letters for this sign out was freehand with brush and black quick dry flat poster then i would hand cut rubber mask with exacto. Was before cnc routers. We did have a 15'' gerber plotter.

It is a hassle to sustain it because i wanted to do something else even more than make sandblasted signs.
The one in photo is a freebie i did for a friend back in early 90's

But if this fits what you want to do Joe has the time to advise you in this forum.

[willnewton]

I'm also not sure a wire brush ever comes close to looking like the real thing. While a wood grain look can be simulated it never looks good enough for me.\I agree, that up close, it is not "realistic" but you also have to consider the distances and speed at which signage is viewed, especially road signage. You have only seconds to read a passing sign at 35 MPH. The viewer is interested is reading the sign, not delivering a critique on the accuracy of your grain modeling which is barely discernible from a distance 50+ feet. Even closeup, they want to know where the bathroom is, not wonder about the scratch pattern in the background.

You should take into account the skill and eye of the craftsman. Everyone at my old sign shop was hired from the Art Dept. from the nearby university and we were capable of doing a pretty good job of emulating grain patterns. We carved some areas by hand, and even added knots, etc. Also, sign paint is quite thick! :)

There are a lot of design choices specific to signage that you would not make for a piece of finely crafted furniture. I also have twelve years as a professional woodworker, specializing in carving and woodturning and love the real deal, but you also sometimes have to meet the client's needs, their budgetary constraints, and take into mind the ultimate usage of the product.

Ideally, it is no compromise at all, but the perfect material for the situation. :)

PS- I agree on the other comment. Silicosis, bad!

[joe]

Dick,

Thanks for posting. I gotta laugh about the way we, once upon a time, made these marvelous signs. These were done without a computer or plotter. Most of us projected the images with an overhead and hand cut "Butter Cut" rubber. It was used by the monument stone carvers. Getting the adhesive of was a real chore. You really had to want to make this kind of sign. We thought we were doing something really exceptional. Ha Ha

Good old sign!

Will brings up a good point about viewing woodgrain from a distance. I'll post some photo's, a little later, showing the type of wood with heavy enough grain to view for a long way off. Right now I'll be showing some delicate work.

Here a topic seldom understood or covered. That's the method of a Second Blast and or "Stage Blasting" I'll come back to stage blasting a little later but for now let me describe the second blast. If you begin with P100 20/50 fine grit. It will get the surface down quickly, lets say .50". For most sign people that is good enough. It renders good woodgrain and sharpness. To refine the process a second pot with white silicone, Sugar Sand, can be employed. When you blast again with the little grit small wood details will jump out. The fine sand gets down between the little wood grain, showing lots of small delicate details.

Fine glass beads can be substituted for sand and cuts even faster. It's doesn't take much. It takes a couple quick passes. Here are example.

What Will and I are talking about gets down to what's acceptable to each artist. I don't disagree with anyone's methods. We all must please ourselves.

[moell54]

Dick and Joe,

The pics you attached in your last posts are very indicative of the fun projects I have in mind. It might could evolve to larger signs located by a highway, but what I was dreaming of making are the signs that would be viewed at a "walking" distance and speed. In that scenario, the signs would be maybe up to 4' x 4', probably smaller, and the presentation could be enjoyed by a more casual approach. Hence the observer could maybe even get a tactile sense of the work in addition to the visual.

Now mind you, my artistic skills have been more a function of using a straight edge with pencil and then constructed with a hammer and a wrench than the kind of awesome work you guys have done. However, the desire to learn something new and enjoy the process is really tugging at me. This is especially true now that I'm not as much like Charles Atlas as I used to be.

Please keep your posts coming. I think we all need to keep stretching and growing.

Aub

[scottp55]

Joe, Love the "Signfest" and "Creeksides"!
(almost as much as the "Hemingway":)

[joe]

Finishing:
Natural Stains & Paints for Wood

Most sandblasted wood signs end up painted as opposed as stains. It's a maintenance issue for the responsible sign artist. I've always like stains best but until now we haven't had long lasting clear coats. Even now I find it necessary to visit stained signs to give them a fresh up. The main issue are those short UV waves which penetrates stains and paints leaching out their beautiful tints. Paint mfg are doing better but I'm afraid it's a loosing battle. Maintenance with stains is still part of the process. Although my favorite stain "Sikkens" will last a few years before needing some maintenance. For me it's not much of an issue because I love to visit my old signs to see how they're doing. They're like my children and a visit to give them a fresh-up is fun.

Painting wood signs is more complex than it may seem. That's due to the natural tannins inside the wood. They will leach through all finish paints leaving yellow-tan stains. At one time we had primers like Block Out White that would arrest staining. It's almost gone but there are a couple left on the market. The original Kils and Zinnser are excellent but you MUST get the original version. Don't use their water based offerings. They won't arrest stains outdoors. At this time I've found a few water based, latex, paints to be best. My favorite are the satin DTM's. Please don't ask what they are made from. I have no idea but they are excellent and will even go Direct To Metal as advertised. One of the real advantages with dark colors it's not as sticky as regular latex paint. When using the saturated colors you'll better of with Ronan's Aqua Coat or Nova Color. Be sure to look at their Color Fast charts. They should be rated as #1. With Nova be sure to get the Opaque versions.

Advanced artists often end up blending their colors. That goes for opaque paints as well as stains. If you don't blend, the end result will be less complex and often looks too simple. Like the effect you get with a children's paint by numbers kit. This is especially so when painting letters and applying them to the background. This is a topic worth looking at in a future post.

Joe

[moell54]

Joe thanks for the continuing insight. Following up with the painting subject would be great.

Have a good weekend,

Aub

[dakers]

we used acrylic latex and one shot lettering enamel on this sign for Cleveland Zoo . I never liked light colored backgrounds because the sandblasted areas can show dirt and mildew. One way to help with that problem is to always blast hdu with upward angle so the water runs down the blasted areas. Gloss enamel also helps the dirt to wash off. If you stack and glue your own wood you just about have to hand select the grain to be vertical at correct angle which is not easy to do anymore with limited supplies locally. That is why i like hdu for blasting light colored backgrounds. We can choose the angle with the Grain Fraim device.
We have had some customers complain when we used to use wood and could never get matching grain on white backgrounds because the shadows on the different grains made the background look like it had gray stripes from the shadows.
that is one reason we like to use smooth backgrounds on white backgrounds

[dakers]

these were painted with two part acrylic polyurethane auto enamel.
They are both HDU and the paint is expensive. The paint for the Lutheran sign with all supplies was $600.00 approx but they wanted something that would hold up longer which really depends on UV exposure and color more than anything. I do not think it is cost effective to use auto enamel unless customer wants it. One Shot enamel with hardner would be a good option for oil base paints. We also use Benjamin Moore Impervo sometimes. We use about every kind of paint made at some time or other. I just like the idea of having a color number i can have mixed at the paint store so i can match it again someday. Or just have the customer go to paint store and email me the type of acrylic latex and color numbers he likes. Color managment can be difficult. We are redoing a job the customer picked a color from a chip but did not like the color on the larger sign. We try to let them know about color issues and problems and we have them sign off when we remember to do that. This customer is paying for the color change because we did take the precautions to educate him but we are not charging alot to make the changes. I hate when that happens. I also tell them the colors fading and how colors look different under flourescent, incandescent light than outside or on their monitor or sketch so we have them pick colors outdoors. Sometimes they are ultra particular about the color and i let them know about fading and the light conditions so they dont beat me up later. I try to take their expecations down a level so we can manage their expecations. Colors can even look different when close to other colors. they eye can perceive a color different when standing alone or against another color. I hate color managment and permits but some look at it as opportunity to charge more.

[dakers]

this sign i did back in the late 80's or early 90's
We used alot of stain called Sign LIfe from SignLIfe Systems because it allowed us to keep the redwood in its natural state fpr as long as possible which many customers want for their exterior wood signs. Not sure that is a good idea in the long term but there are products that can help. Thompsons water seal and others but never use clear varnish or clear polyurethane for long term exterior wood signs as the wood will expand and contract and the clear will pull away from the wood and look blotchy to the point that the sign will have to be painted with solid colors. Translucent stains may be good choices but wood signs exposed do require maintenance with the finishes. I like the aged wood look where it turns gray but then you have to account for the color change when you choose a letter color. Study wood treatments for decks but many of those treatments can not be painted over top of the treatment with paints.
it is all so subjective on what you like and what the customer likes. The simpler you keep your methods the better. i have attached a article on how others handle color.
Joe may have some thoughts on a clear for redwood and cedar but i have never found a solution that is very long term.

[dakers]

Here is another one using acylic latex and one shot lettering paint.
it seems this is our favorite method for painitng at this time. this is HDU.
i know this does not fit in the sandblasting topic but since it has changed to painting maybe it will be allowed

[dakers]

the attachment is exterior wood finishes from California Redwood Association.
you can get cedar blanks from www.harborsales.net www.pioneersupply.com and other places like www.perfectplank.com which we have used before.

We do not use wood anymore but some bids request it with no exception. We just like the truck to pull up with the HDU. It seems alot easier to sell.
We try not to sell sandblasted signs anymore also because we we are not set up to do on a daily basis due to low demand for finished hdu products. If we were working with HDU on a daily basis we would be more profitable doing all of them as sandblasted because we can blast a 4x8 in an hour and i think getting the paint finish is easy beause the blasting hides any issues with painitng you would have on a smooth panel.
it is also good to round all sharp edges off because they are easy to get dented in handling. We have alot of bubble wrap.

[moell54]

Thanks for sharing all your experience. Painting and staining is my weakest, almost non-existant skill set.

[dakers]

Here is a sign i did over 30 years ago. has never been maintained or repainted. used the clear SignLife System which i think is no longer in business and one shot lettering enamel.
most of the layout was done with a brush on the rubber mask. i am a sign painter so that is easier for me to do than drawing letters back then. That is why they do not look so perfect.
they like it beat up like this and moved it inside their office as part of their history wall along with a new one we just did for the real estate division. the new one was acrylic latex and one shot lettering.

[joe]

Grain Visibility:

This was a good point brought up by Will, a few posts ago, when he mentioned the distance at which wood grain could be recognized. That's an excellent point and should be understood.

The photo's I posted under the heading of second blast, a few posts ago, have generous wood grain detail but have poor wood grain identity. For example, when I chose the wood for "Sign Fest" the end grain of the wood was extremely close. While impressive at close up distance it can't be seen a block away. One of the photo's below shows end grain of yellow pine. Please note the distance between the growth rings. A sign made with these boards will show a good grain from distance.

I've included a couple of photo's with exaggerated grain knowing they'll be viewed at distance.

[dakers]

CONTRAST: I think if you design with contrast you can have smooth, sandblasted and raised elements on the sign. in the sketch here you can choose a sandblasted look in the logo oval back ground then smooth for main background then some raised and relief elements. A sign with visual contrast stands out.

[David Iannone]

Refurbishing an old sandblasted sign:

This photo is a pic of my subdivision entrance sign. There are three entrances double sided. Six signs total. I would like to refinish these on site. What would be the best way to clean the grain background and prep for new paint?

The only job similar to this I did many years ago, what I did was take it down, and take multiple layers of duck tape and covered all areas except the background. Hand cutting all the "duck tape mask" Then took it to my blaster and told him to just clean it up till he got back into the wood. It turned out great, but was a ton of time covering all the areas.

If I where to take this sign down, I suppose I could trace the art form my photo and make 1/4 inch PVC stencil on the Shopbot to block the flat surfaces as Joe Crumley has mentioned it works well.

I would rather just do these one at a time on some nice days in the spring. I am thinking some assorted wire brushes, and maybe some round wire brushes that you can put in a drill? I was also thinking of filling the cracks with silicone before paint?

Thanks,
Dave

[David Iannone]

Ipad only let one pic at a time, they are all pretty badly cracked.

[dakers]

I have had lots of requests like this and my curse is being a options thinker.
What goes through my mind is:
1.budget may dictate final suggestion to customer after surveying sign condition.
2. On site maintenance: wire and scrub brushes, trisodium phosphate, pressure washing, wood epoxy resin for cracks, two coats xim 400 white, finish coats.
3. Remove and repair: same as above but will glue and clamp boards if possible.
4. Remove sign see what is behind sign which is usually cement or block but if brick sometimes I suggest Gemini letters to replace sign if the wood looks like it is a waste of money to fix.
5. Make new hdu replacement signs if budget is good.

Would probably need approx $2,600.00 to repair six signs on site with our burden rate.

In bid war we do better quoting the benefits of king color core replacement for maintenance free future. But quote all options mentioned.
Since it does not take a sign shop to repair,repair these signs we never get these jobs at our price. Usually someone on the homeowners board knows someone. So it is better for us to give them all options so we might have a chance to get the job.

Xim 400 white is one of the best primer sealers ever made. We have used it since 1972 and it has never failed. Not good for hdu however but it adheres to any type of paint if prepared properly.
The thing I tell people on reprints is the repainted is only as good as the base primer and the thicker the paint film is the better the chance of failure. So your idea of blasting the sign is good but fir this project if you were to do that you are better off just shopboting new sign.

[joe]

Good post David,

I'd consider this a nice juicy, fun project. Here's my thoughts. What you want to do is end up with a better looking signs than the original. Here's what I'd do.

Take a photo directly in front of the sign. This will be your template for routing. Even if they aren't exact the same, it won't make any difference.

Rent a 360psi pressure washer and blast the heck out of them. Cut a set of outside boarders from rough cedar. With the photo, make a vector outline of the lettering. Cut new letters to go over the existing one's. I'd use DiBond and coat them out with DTM.

The rest is application of the parts on site.

Please give me another call tomorrow and I can go over the project. Hope you get this one. It should go quickly.

Joe

[dakers]

Joe has great idea to make it better. You can also make paper tracing and stack and cut dibond with sabre saw since it is simple design. I plan to use more dibond like Joe does in the future.

[David Iannone]

Thanks Dick and Joe,
Yes, I plan to be adding Diebond in the future also. Still working on my samples. Its gonna be a good year.

Joe,
I will give you a call tomorrow.
Thank you Sir.

Dave

[dakers]

http://ximbonder.com/?xim_products=400w-white
this is the xim 400 white i was mentioning.
they were going to have to discontinue it because of VOC'S but somehow it is still available but not easy to get anymore. they did make some friendlier primers but i do not think they are as good as this one.
i used their clear primer many times as well when we would prepaint wood, apply rubber mask, sandblast, apply clear to background then apply finish then pull up mask. the clear kept the background finish coat from bleeding under the mask but gave us a great long lasting primer.

[David Iannone]

Here is an old Double sided Sandblasted Redwood sign we did.

-Cut Oval on Shopbot
-Primed and painted both sides green
-cut rubber mask on plotter and applied it. (only cut the letters on the plotter. Hand cut stripes and formed them around the oval. I never could get ovals to cut out of rubber stencil and have the start and end points meet like they should)
-Took to my sandblaster
-Left mask on and primed and painted the blasted area Burgundy
-Pulled mask off (VERY CAREFULLY, rubber mask can and will pull paint, primer and all if not very careful)
-Last step (the most fun for me) was gold leafing the text and one of the borders. Just take a good brush and brush on the gold size. Let sit for the right amount of time and start laying leaf. (make sure all your other paint colors are good and cured first)

We fabricated the post ourselves also. All One Shot paints used on this one.

The pic was taken back when digital cameras where just getting popular, i think it was about .5 mexapixel (better than a polariod though).....LOL That was the good old days.....now our phones are all we need for picture archives.

Dave

[David Iannone]

Two more similar process also with One Shot Paint. On Drummond Hill we printed the center pic off of a Gerber Edge printer.

PS. look how close the utility line was to where they wanted the sign........:eek:
There was really no where else to go with the sign either. We didn't use the power auger on this one, just dug by hand and never did find the utility line thank goodness.

[dakers]

Dave looks great the way the grain on Tahoe sign is directed down.
how did the sign get installed between posts?
We have done alot of those type post panel signs and i wanted them to be easily removable so on the edge of the sign that went against the post i put a piece of 1/4'' clear flat lexan strip the same width as sign and same height. The lexan was screwed to the sign every 3'' . Then on the outside of post i would run two 1/4'' lags that were countersunk through the post into the predrilled pilot holes in the lexan and into the sign about an inch.The lexan kept the sign from splintering and held it in place very nicely. Was easy to take down for repaints.

[David Iannone]

Dick, that's a good technique. Just take out the cordless impact driver and simple removal.

If I remember correctly I believe we used 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 Alum angle on each side of the back against the 4x4 post and the sign. The angle was top to bottom as tall as the sign and painted green. We also used screws very close together through the AL into the sign and 4x4 post. Then just for the heck of it ran long deck screws in from the side of the 4x4 post into the sign and touched them up with green.

Not sure why we did that one that way, could have just hogged out the 4x4 post on the shopbot and made the sign blank another 1.5" longer on each side to slide into. I was probably in a rush, late on the job and scrambling......LOL

But easy remove ability is a good selling point for some customers for sure. Back then I wasn't thinking ahead just day to day.

Dave

[joe]

Not all sandblasted sign have to look delicate and technical. As a matter of fact, when blasting wood like Rough Cedar you'll never get all the vertical wood pattern as with heart redwood. After years of technical blasting I've fallen in love with old, forgotten and discarded lumber. Matched with clean, sharp routed letters it can be evoke plenty of emotion and visibility.

The finished sign Wes Wetherell was posted earlier.

Joe