Thinking about a cyclone?

[kurt_rose]

Pretty cool cyclone kit. Cool being able to see it do it's thing. It's definitely something us botters could do with a trip to the big box store. Think I'm gonna have to give it a shot with a few twists. Thought I'd share.

http://youtu.be/JXs7UtQMZtA

[gc3]

Bill Pentz...google it

[kurt_rose]

Thanks Gene. I have check out his site. I think he has his hands in Clear Vue. Lot of info there.

[Ajcoholic]

In my best "Crocodile Dundee" voice...

Tha'ts not a cyclone.... THIS is a cyclone :D

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_1711_zpsfc90d3b9.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_1711_zpsfc90d3b9.jpg.html)

[Ajcoholic]

In all seriousness, I wouldn't run any dust collector without a cyclone separator. It's just so much easier to keep the filters clean and the system running efficiently.

[gc3]

In all seriousness, I wouldn't run any dust collector without a cyclone separator. It's just so much easier to keep the filters clean and the system running efficiently.

agree...but when the cnc is running and hogging out massive amount of material it takes a big DC system to keep up...and you gotta empty drum...when I run a long file...like this one @ 36 hrs...I give up on DC and let the chips fall where they wish

[Ajcoholic]

Well, I can buy an air lock and conveyor for the bottom of mine, that will convey the chips and dust to a larger bin or just outside, etc while the system is running :)

For me, the large bin on wheels is a good size, and with the CNC wouldnt fill up for a long time. I can fill it pretty fast milling several hundred BF of material though the planer though.

I think my bins are 2/3 cubic yard. Thats a fair amount of dust and shavings.

[bobmoore]

I agree that a cyclone is almost a necessity, especially if you process rough lumber. I have a local farmer come and pick up my 55 gallon drums and bed his calves with it. Bob

[scottp55]

Kurt, What are you running for DC CFM and final filter?
Thought a few others had just bought Oneida and it's been a few months and was wondering how they were doing?
Small DustDeputy is Wonderful for Fein HEPA Tubo II. Seems a perfect combination for Desktop for anybody interested .
I was considering a Larger Oneida for garage Delta for Saw,Jointer,Shaper,RAS and was just curious if the bigger Oneida's were as good as the babies.:)

[barrowj]

I've been running a Penn State Cyclone for years and wouldn't want to do without, although I could use a more powerful one...

Joe

[Ajcoholic]

Kurt, What are you running for DC CFM and final filter?
Thought a few others had just bought Oneida and it's been a few months and was wondering how they were doing?
Small DustDeputy is Wonderful for Fein HEPA Tubo II. Seems a perfect combination for Desktop for anybody interested .
I was considering a Larger Oneida for garage Delta for Saw,Jointer,Shaper,RAS and was just curious if the bigger Oneida's were as good as the babies.:)

I've run several smaller industrial collectors in my career (smaller ones @ 3HP and 1500 cfm up to 15 HP stand alone units, with my current shop having a 7.5HP/3800 cfm unit) both with and without a cyclone pre-separator.

I would never run a collector now without one. On my current setup, I have a large (the 2nd largest stock size) Oneida unit, matched to my Belfab DC unit. The Belfab is a decent collector, but they don't make a cyclone and too many shavings still get blown up into the filters and requires constant shaking, etc.

With the Oneida cyclone, ALL the shavings and nearly all the dust from my wide belt sander, stroke and edge sander etc settles into the bin under the cyclone. I do check the bin under the filter bags once every few months and there is at best an inch or two of dust in there. Not bad considering I might dump my main bin 50 or 60 times in a month easily if I am processing a decent amount of wood.

I think Oneida makes a very good product. I wouldnt hesitate to buy one of their smaller units if I needed a secondary unit.

In my last shop, we had two 3 HP Corral DC's (Italian) that I had a local sheet metal shop make us up cyclone's for. That was also a HUGE time savings as we rarely had to empty the two large drums under the collectors - with again almost all the waste falling into the cyclone bin which was larger.

One thing with cyclones - that those without them might not realise, is that since the cyclone is in the line before the impeller, it is on the suction side of the system. And it is very easy to seal the drum, bin, etc under the cyclone which also makes removal and dumping easier.

On my setup, the flat lid over the bin is just a sheet of Baltic birch ply, with a wooden lip on 3 sides and some foam door seal around the perimeter. When I wheel in the bin, the lid just sits on the bin's top edge and once the DC is turned on, the lid gets sucked firmly to the bin. With a drum its the same thing, you can just have a lid sitting loosely on the drum and it will get sucked down once started up.

Much easier than trying to seal off the drums on the pressure side where any leak allows dust to escape.

[kurt_rose]

Scott, I'm using a 2hp Harbor Freight DC with a Wynn Environmental filter on it. I was gonna mount a Super Dust Deputy to the lid of a 55 gallon steel drum. I just picked up 3 sweet ones and figured I could change them out and put the out in the trash when. I cut a lot of MDF and Exteria and am getting tired of having to clean the Wynn filter. I just thought the clear cyclone was a neat idea and it would also give me a heads up when the barrel was getting full.

[kevin]

I have mine on a low budget I think its better to have to 2 small cyclones like Bill cyclone size .I have my exhaust vented out side no bags or filters works amazing don't have to empty for planner that's another story.
See mine set up to the right will have second for the right side of shop then both for sander
If your cutting mdf anything is better then nothing

[Ajcoholic]

You cannot just throw any size cyclone in front of any size DC. The size (diameter, height of cone and height of cylindrical section, as well as the intake and exhaust piping) should be scaled to the cfm of the collector.

Too small or too large isnt optimal. The best bet is to talk to someone in the DC business and let them size the cyclone for your unit.

Kurt,
The clear cyclone would be neat. However, if you dont have one, Oneida makes a great little thing called the dust sentry

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXB999110A&CatId={4CA9A078-61CB-463F-B843-8C681E38534F}

which is what I have to tell mem when the bin is filled up. Works great.

The thing with cyclones is once the dust and chips reach the top of the bin they will start to settle in the cyclone and go up the exhaust. So you need to empty the cyclone when it is just at the full mark or slightly less.

[kevin]

One other thing I forgot to mention i read Bills cyclone web site about 12 years ago amazing

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

It open my eyes .I've seen first hand when engineers and salesman came to design a system .after they where done 145,000 later no one wanted to turn it on it was that loud sounded like a freight train was going through the shop.I was working in a shop of about 30
All shops are different

[scottp55]

Kurt, Mine is translucent, but STILL didn't stop me from filling to the brim:)
Like Andrews high tech sensor, But a few people on Vectric have simply cut a hole and then silicone an acrylic "window" on at about the 3/4 mark as on theirs (home-built Thiens), that was about where turbulence started causing theirs to start disturbing the dust in the drum. Pretty happy that my little Oneida could get filled to the brim and still protect the Fein.
One size does NOT fit all, so hopefully someone with similar DC specs will chime in. After cleaning the Wynn within an inch of its life, AND getting a good cyclone it should have suction like the first minute you ran it AND stay that way for a good long time with little cleaning if any for long periods of time.
Good Luck,
One of our best investments.
scott

[scottp55]

Kurt, Finally found the thread mentioning Grizzly/Oneida I'd been looking for:)
http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20764&p=147088&hilit=cyclone#p147088

[Davo]

I tried a big shop vac first, then looked at a dust collector system, I ended up actually doing something a little ghetto....using a blower/mulcher.

However, it puts the shop vac to shame and I'm using a 4" hose - on the low setting its pulling at least 3 times the suction of the 6.5hp shop vac.

Very very pleased for $60 and working flawless, doing a great job of keeping my cutting clean.

Everything stays nicely in the bag, no dust seems to be escaping, so that eliminates filters for me, the metal turbine has stayed spot free, and its cheap to replace.

I have it rigged up on a wireless remote control to turn on/off.

Plus 12amps vs 20amps for the big harbor freight dust collector system.

22994

[Kyle Stapleton]

There is dust escaping, a lot of dust. That bag is for grass and leaves not dust.

[Davo]

I have the bag inside of a cardboard box just in case, but the box has stayed clean also.

I have not run MDF through it though and thats where i may get some leakage.

If so, I can always put a regular dust bag on it since.

[Burkhardt]

I tried a Black and Decker leaf blower on my first machine for a short while but it burned out after a few days of use. There was a trash can cyclone in the suction stream and it worked quite well but I guess they are not intended for continuous duty. The howling noise was another issue.

Since then I am using a home made dual stage cyclone with a larger single cyclone (12" dia, 4" in and out) on a 20 gal drum, followed by a battery of twelve parallel operating 1-inch cyclones for the fine dust (like the Dyson vacuums). That works quite well with a 1hp Harborfreight blower and HEPA final filters. The whole rig is 24"x24"x72 tall on casters.

The cyclones are made from clear plastic but after 2 years of use the swirling dust has dulled the surface quite a bit. One thing I noticed, the gadget works better when getting some throughput like roughing with the CNC or using the planer or drum sander. Then you can see the dust streaming through the funnel down into the bin in a nice spiral. At one point I made an experiment emptying the full 20 gal bin onto the floor and the collector sucked the pile back into the bin in less than a minute. But when working with minimal dust intake like finish cuts you can see the same dust swirling in the funnel around and around for minutes before it eventually goes into the bin.

[Davo]

I was wondering if this thing would burn out or not, I guess I will have to make the jump to the harbor freight system and upgrade my electrical to support the extra 20amps.

[scottp55]

Davo, Just remember DC is only as good as the finest filter in the loop!
The only thing the cyclone does is keep your filters cleaner so vac is relatively unimpeded and less cleaning (or HEPA cartridges for me $$) is needed. Sub-micron if you can.

[kurt_rose]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I just ordered the dust sentry. Tomorrow here in the northeast we are hunkering down for a big snow storm so I'll be playing in the shop all day. Gonna give a try at making a clear cyclone. I'll be sure to post pictures.

[Brady Watson]

Yup...snow (http://youtu.be/i6zaVYWLTkU)

I'm interested in seeing your progress with the clear one :)

-B

[Ajcoholic]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I just ordered the dust sentry. Tomorrow here in the northeast we are hunkering down for a big snow storm so I'll be playing in the shop all day. Gonna give a try at making a clear cyclone. I'll be sure to post pictures.

Youll like the dust sentry.

On my cyclone, I have a short length of clear 12" diameter flex hose connecting the lid and the metal cyclone, and if Im close enough I can see the chips swirling around or resting if the bin is 100% full.

However, if I am planing, jointing, using the saws or shaper - I dont have a close and clear enough view. I have the Sentry's strobe mounted up high and when it starts flashing steadily I know its time to empty the bin. Nice unit, Ive been using mine for 3+ years now no issues.

Snow... I know all about the snow. :) We see it usually early Nov and stays until May. I hear you guys are in for quite a storm. Ive been through a few 36"+ storms in my life here. Thats an awful lot of snow in 24 hrs to deal with..

[scottp55]

Only 18-24" expected here, but 40-45mph winds woke me up at 2AM (Eaves howl and at 50 wind through trees sounds like a freight train) so should be some nice drifts, especially with 60 mph gusts:)

[David Iannone]

One thing with cyclones - that those without them might not realise, is that since the cyclone is in the line before the impeller, it is on the suction side of the system. And it is very easy to seal the drum, bin, etc under the cyclone which also makes removal and dumping easier.

On my setup, the flat lid over the bin is just a sheet of Baltic birch ply, with a wooden lip on 3 sides and some foam door seal around the perimeter. When I wheel in the bin, the lid just sits on the bin's top edge and once the DC is turned on, the lid gets sucked firmly to the bin. With a drum its the same thing, you can just have a lid sitting loosely on the drum and it will get sucked down once started up.

Much easier than trying to seal off the drums on the pressure side where any leak allows dust to escape.

Andrew,
I had no idea about that. I just recently got the Super Dust Deputy and love it. But I bought too small a drum when I bought it. Because of that band they put on it I just thought it had to be a secure clamping. And, while making my new plenum I overfilled the drum not paying attention. What a mess.

So What I am thinking is taking some 3/4" thick Clear Acrylic and cutting a circle big enough to set on top of my trash can, and make the hole and bolt pattern for the cyclone to bolt on and just sit it on top. Probably cut a groove on the underside so it will drop right on the can. So that will work? Then I can look down through the acrylic to see how full it is.

Dave

[scottp55]

Dave, How about just using ply for the top and then making a few acrylic "windows" on it? Save$$ and with smaller size plexi could be thinner:)
May want to do a test run to make sure you don't need an interior ply gusset to prevent collapsing that can?
Also, it's going to be HEAVY, have you considered wheeled or a dolly?
A Vectric person did this.

(Snow:) only another 12-14" expected for my county according to NPR. 30" in 24hrs winds about 40-50. Not much sticking on the steel roof)

[David Iannone]

Scott,
Thanks, I just happened to have some 3/4" acrylic sitting around. But you may be right about possible can collapse. I like the photo of metal can with the clean acrylic window, that probably makes more sense. And wheels would be very good idea too.I will add to my Bot to do list and get it done as soon as I can wrap of vac hold down....

Man, that snow looks nice. I miss the snow. We don't get any snow in Lagrange, Ga.
About an hour south of Atlanta.

Dave

[Bob Eustace]

In my best "Crocodile Dundee" voice...

Tha'ts not a cyclone.... THIS is a cyclone :D

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_1711_zpsfc90d3b9.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_1711_zpsfc90d3b9.jpg.html)

Andrew I saw Crocodile Dundee in Hawaii and it really intrigued me what tickled the American sense of humour. They all loved your knife scene yet the Caddilac ornament that looked like a boomerang didnt get a snicker! Same with the station scene mimicking our Border Collie sheep dogs running on the sheeps backs. Stilled loved the movie!

[scottp55]

Oops Bob:) Andrew's CANADIAN!!!
My Gram was Canadian, and would have whupped your butt(even though soaking wet she was 100lbs) for calling her an American!!:)
Once asked her what she'd do If there was ever a war between us, she said "Kill your Grandfather, and run like heck for the border!!"
Took me slightly aback when I was 10! Sweet dear Gram....and I think she meant it.

[kurt_rose]

I just picked up one of those mini moving dollies from harbor fright to put under the drum. Think it was like 12 bucks

[propellers]

I purchased a Commercial Metal Cyclone and didn't want to build the supporting equipment and ended up purchasing and entire Oneida shop system that works excellent but I still have the unused cyclone, will sell for $100.00, all one needs to do is hook to vacuum system, and collector.