Bringing old signs back to life

[joe]

I had a nice chat today with David about his repaint project of six old weathered, sandblasted signs. We covered the techniques for making them look like new. Here are the thoughts covered.

When new lumber is glued up, blasted, sanded, painted and installed it's going to go through lots of changes. The first few months are the most difficult as it gets used to the climate. After a few years it's all settled down although looking a little tired. The novice often thinks it's seen it's best days but with a little skill the life can be extended double what's it's already been through.

The profit in fixing up one of these is better than starting from new. But it does take knowledge and skill. I price a re-furb at half the price of a new sign. There's very little expense involved. It's mainly labor but will come together in half the time it takes to make a new one.

This work starts out with a high pressure water blaster. A car wash work great. Get that nozzle within a few inches of the panel and give it heck. Remove all pithy wood and paint. Don't worry about those awful looking cracks. There are three solutions that work best for me. Precision Board's Crack Filler and their Texture Coat can work wonders. The most important solution is the combination of Bondo & Fiberglas Resin. That compound works like a dream. You mix this up 50-50 along with the hardening compound. This sets up in about 10 minutes so wait till your ready before mixing it up. I'll go over the process in a day or two.

Please review the photo's below to see some ugly knots, splits and cracks. All of them can be fixed and will last for a long time..

The combination photo's below show a panel with mainly cracks. I'll go over this one first. Please note the advantage of deep blasting. When this is done you have plenty of room for sanding off letters and borders as the sign ages. Shallow blasts are about the only reason I'll walk away from a re-ferb. If you ever blast, make sure the depth is approx. .50" Not only does this make for a more dramatic look, it's also insurance if you need to sand off the letters.

Joe

[David Iannone]

Joe,
It is gonna be a fun project for sure. And with the techniques you outlined will be a lot faster and look better than the way I would have attacked it in my usual methods. I will document and take pics along the way and post them here once complete.

.5" Deep on blasting makes so much sense. Unfortunately most of the sandblasted signs I've done over time were mostly shallow blasts, never gave a thought about maintenance in the years to come. Going forward I will deepen them up for sure.

Thank you for your inspiration and for all the knowledge you share with this forum. I will be doing my best this year to give something back to this forum also. More than anything I think pictures of work done. I can learn more sometimes from a bunch of pictures and description, then if it was a whole 2 page article written with maybe one pic.

Dave

[dakers]

looks like a blast Joe. I started blasting the back of one sided wood signs to take the stress out of the wood and it seems to warp alot less once both sides were equal but black backgrounds do heat up a bit. i did not get close to the edges in the back.
love your photos and your ability to teach and instruct. Obvious you were a great teacher.
I do not have that skill.

[joe]

Thanks guys,

Here are a couple more photo's. The first is showing the effects of Ivy on the sign. Then there's the glue-up shot to flatten the panel.

From there is my Dr. Griffith's, double sided, sign. The Lichens were firmly attached as it does on old stone. Couldn't find anyway to get it off so sealed if off with Kils.

There's too many photo's to show so I'll post a few. The main thing is to let everyone know it looks even better than new since the gold letters were first domed with epoxy.

[gene]

how long have you had the belt sander in the pic

[joe]

Gene,

I hadn't thought about that. My best guess would be in the late 70's. It was new then. I'm afraid the locomotive sanders have gone out of production. You can't wear one out. I'm sure you know they're powerful and quiet dew to being a worm drive.

I remember changing the oil once in it's life.

Joe

[joe]

The glossy yellow surface to the letters is epoxy dome process. This is an ideal surface for gold.

I probably should mention my use of the big disk sander. It's the tool to use for removing all the surface paint. Armed with the foam pad it's forgiving of any gouges. I use my belt sander much less when I found out about the buffer.

Since the wood is mature and dry there shouldn't be any more checking. For that reason a refurbished should outlast a new one. Once again I price this price at half what a new one would cost.

[David Iannone]

Wow Joe. Those really look great. I suppose when a customers refurbished sign is complete and reinstalled it blows them away for the second time. Aprox how old was the dentist sign before the refurbish?
10 years?

The presence these type of signs does for a business is amazing. If they break the cost down by how many years it will last its peanuts.

A good sign is the best type of advertising. Even something as simple as a $200 pickup door lettering job will pay itself off within a month for the customer most times.


Dave

[joe]

David,

I'm so glad you brought this topic up, that is about pricing.

Sometimes a sign isn't really an advertising piece. For example, a Funeral Home or a OBGYN clinic is more about image than a sales. They should look professional. Only the lord knows what a church sign will look like today. Some look like used car lots. It's not that way in Europe.

I'd love to do more churches. They should look inviting and comforting. One where you'd pull in for a break away from the troubles of life. A chance to re-coop and get your mind in order. That's hard to pull off with an electronic message board.

The reason we needed to work on Dr. Griffith sign was a sprinkler system he had installed once the sign was finished. It didn't take long before the dark blue paint had some white calcium and the gold lost all it's luster. I bet it wasn't but five years old when we got the call.

I'm looking forward to the time when you get cooking on those entrance signs. Everyone will learn from that experience.

Joe

[chadagmsign]

Looking good Joe!!

[David Iannone]

Joe, I get my deliveries from the sign supply once a week on Wed. I am gonna order the material for the first one tomorrow and get to work on the vectors. It is still cold here in GA, but I hope to have all the Diebond parts cut and painted and ready for a 3 day break in the weather middle of this month.

If I do it right I think it goes like this:

Day 1: Pressure wash

Day 2: Bondo/Epoxy, also prime this day

Day 3: Paint background, go out for a good lunch. Then come back and install the two different colors of Diebond and take pictures.

This will be the first refurbish I have taken on, and following your guidelines I think it is going to be something I will actively search out this type of work in my town and about a 30 mile radius. We have to get our customers excited about their signs. I know when I get fired up about something, I Just Do It. So I need to find more customers like me.....:D

Dave

[dakers]

Joe since you mentioned epoxy dome process i have a question about epoxy that maybe you can help with.
first some history of our use:
Joe we do alot of epoxy inlays that we call resin pours in color core but searching google the world over i have never found any recommended for exterior use without yellowing.
on the inlays we add 10% colorant to "hide" the epoxy in the pigment to avoid the yellowing and the uv wear. Also use minerals used for grout on top to hide the epoxy from the UV rays. and some other things you suggested we try once called Mica mixed in the epoxy. sometimes we even paint on top of the epoxy to hide it from UV rays.
I should say even though they say not long term exterior we have not had a failure in 15 years but that may be due to the resin pour which is on vertical sign.
I have attached a photo of black resin pour using Envirotex LIte available locally. it is easy to work with compared to some resins because of the flow factor is nice.

what brand of epoxy to you use? i want to use that also.
does your supplier for epoxy have a retarder or primer and other additives?

I like the blue on the Dentist sign. Is that an acrylic latex?

[joe]

Dick,

The epoxy I've used for years is PB Resin. It's thick and slow drying. I started off with West Epoxy but it's thin as water and needs to be mixed with beads, high dollar, to make it useable.

For doming I mix a very small amount of Chrome Yellow enamel. Never used epoxy as a clear top coat.

Joe

[dakers]

Thanks joe