Hanging HDU from a clevis fitting

[jim shula]

I'm making a two sided 5, x 4' carved sign using 2" 4'418lb HDU to replace an existing sign. The existing sign is hung from an upper beam spanning between two posts with chains extending from the beam to two clevis fittings with 1/2" bolts that go through the sign. I haven't looked at the sign up close yet, but from a distance it appears the bolts pass thru the sign about 2" below the top edge.

Is it okay to use the same hanging system, or are two 1/2" bolts within 2" from the top of the HDU likely to break out? I calculate the finished sign will weigh about 65 lbs (4'x5'x.17'=3.4 cu ft x18=61lbs plus paint).

If this system is not recommended I could have a continuous ss bar with two eyes welded on top and six holes for lags set into over drilled and epoxy filled pilot holes, or add a continuous wooden border around the sign and hang it like the old one.

[joe]

I'm very interested in this installation. Good to see the post.

Sure would like to see an illustration or photo. Is this interior or exterior? From what I've read so far it seems like trouble.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[jim shula]

Joe, here's a link to their website which shows their old sign:

http://www.southgorhamvets.com/

You can barely see the clevis fixtures near the corners of the sign.

[joe]

Jim,

What a handsome sign.

Ok, here's my take on swinging HDU signs. I don't expect this material to be strong enough. Good news is there's several options which will make it work. One of my favorites is to have an interior substrate material like MDO which provides the strength. The HDU is glued on. Another one is to have a steel border that goes around the sign with eye hooks welded on.

Both of these techniques allow the HDU ride along with no stress. The second method is both attractive and stronger.

Joe

[dakers]

So many methods will work. To add to the mix for a sign that large we always make two one sided signs with two routed vertical slots then would glue in two 5ft x 1/2" threaded rods we place a couple nuts on the rods in middle of sign to keep from sliding. Then we connect hanging hardware to the rods. Sometimes we use 2"X1/4" flat stock instead of rods. Works great for larger signs. We have welded up flat stock in a H configuration to be placed in between which even gives sign more strength and basically holds itself in place in the routed channels we put on both pieces before we glue them together. I would rather use 3" for a sign like that if budget allowed. I would change size of sign from what they have had. Maybe wider and 4 ft high. Seems too low to ground for landscaping and it looks roomy on both sides of sign.

[jim shula]

Thanks for all the good ideas. I think I'll go with the ss flat stock. I visited the West Systems epoxy booth at a boat show a few years ago and they had 1/4" lag screw set into 2" HDU as a demo. The screw hole was drilled out oversized, filled with thickened epoxy, and re-drilled to the correct size for a pilot hole. The lag screw was tested to hold several hundred pounds before it pulled out. Here's a link to their testing using HDU:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/bonding-fasteners-in-high-density-urethane-foam/

[scottp55]

23110Jim, First time I ever pulled up your site:(

LIKE the Trimaran!!:)

[dakers]

We have used similar methods as west system describes for small hdu hanging signs.
What we did different was use longest eye bolt we could find then drill the hole in top of hdu with long drill bit widening the bottom of hole so the epoxy around the eye bolt was anchored at base of hole so it could not slide up. If we used 2" hdu we would glue a 2" x 4" cap on top. The cap held the top of bolt so it would not tear the hdu since the weak area is the top of the 2" hdu

[jim shula]

Scott, that trimaran is for sale now down south of Boston at the Multihull source.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2765217&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=themultihullsource&&ywo=themultihullsource&

[joe]

Jim,

Excellent post. We need more like this.

The technique in the article has been around for Donkey's years. We've been using it in our workshops for interior signs. Here in Oklahoma, with 50 & 60 mph winds I'd give your sign a full year life. If the wind didn't do it in, hail would could show it's effects. Please visit some of my photo's on hail damage.

There are fellows in the high country that never experience what we do. Others in the North West have completely different concerns. Still, as a boat builder a 1/4"X2" steel band around the sign could be attractive and never give way.

[dakers]

The other way we have used tempered threaded rod on large signs between posts is glue two horizontal 3/4"
Electrical metallic tubing in routed channels between two 2" or 1.5" pcs hdu. The tempered 1/2" rod slides into the tubing through both countersunk posts. So to remove sign we just remove nut on one end and push rod through tubing. We started doing this to make sign stiffer and to avoid as much exposed hardware as possible. We started doing that in 1995 with hdu. We have used schedule 40 pvc tubing. We have also used thinner threaded rod at times. With the better 15 lb hdu they make now with more of a closed cel process it seems to work like the old 18 lb. for painting but we use both grades.

[dakers]

attached another signfoam sign we used threaded rod on. this was done approx 1997. i think i used 1'' tempered rod then covered the edges with pvc. the rod goes thru the pole cover and is held in place with nuts on each side of the steel pole.

i see the sign once in awhile and it is as solid as the day we installed it. I think i would do it this way again but i do like ornamental brackets as an option. So many choices.