Why are we dealing with this - please embed the computer

[cwho]

Hi,

Ok, this is a bit of a moan, but I am not a hater. We have a shopbot since we bought our first in the late 90's, I think, when it was made of unistrut and clamps. Love the brand, not currently loving our machine. .


We just did another upgrade to our latest shobot to put in a new interface card. We try to keep the machine up to date and we also thought that it was time to retire WinXP. WOW, what a BAD move. :( Every other upgrade from Shopbot has been great but this one is Terrible.

Should have stuck with "if it aint broke dont fix it."

Communications errors. Grounding issues, Crashes and freezes

Having always obtained A++ service from Shobot and having read the forums I called. Ugh. I got a "screen reader" who told me to run the computer as Admin, disconnect it from the network, remove all virus protection and don' t let it update. Wow, 2015 guys... and you are telling me that best practice is that my mill should not be on the network. Perhaps I am supposed to run my files back on a floppy? If I wanted all that I could have stayed with XP.

So my question is, why are we dealing with this? Please Shopbot, embed the computer with the next upgrade. You can get a nice Raspberry Pi 2 for $50 or a similar embeded controller, reduce the communications link to .25" and go back to having a machine that "just works" .

Thanks.

I guess I should stop complaining and start stringing what was a working machine with Green grounding wire and buying USB sticks to ferry files...

[jerry_stanek]

What brand of computer are you trying to use.

[bleeth]

All new computers should have all automatic and/or background running services disabled.
No screen saver or sleep mode enabled.
Standard method is Black Viper it.
Ok to be hooked onto network in house so you can access your SB files on your design computer/server unit, assuming you are going through a protected router.
I'm also hooked to the internet but never go on it from that station except when updating SB software, which isn't much!

[Brady Watson]

What brand of computer are you trying to use.

X2. Some are known to have inferior USB hardware. Fine for browsing the net...but not up to par with running a robot. BIG difference.

Not sure why you needed to upgrade XP unless you have a newer version of design software. I've got XP on one of my machines & it runs the latest card/SB3 just fine.

Please list computer brand/model, installed RAM, Operating system, what color USB you are plugged into & what version of SB3 you are running. Is this a 4G or RBK control box?

-B

[David Iannone]

I feel your pain. I have been bringing my old PRT up to date. 4g board was when my comm errors started. I will always own Shopbot. I wish they would sell the control cpu in the package too.

At this time I have contacted Gray Campbell to build me a custom control CPU for my bot. I only use control CPU to control Bot. No Design software, I shuffle a usb thumb drive from office to machine to cut.

Dave

[tlempicke]

The problem is really with Microslop. I am running an Apple Mac with Bootcamp and Windows 8 in order to use Aspire. Great combo! My Mac runs for years at a time with no issues. Apple upgrades it on a regular basis at no charge, or if a new operating system comes along it costs about $29, so no big deal there. A cheapie Lenovo (I think) runs the Bot and I never, ever have issues. When you can buy a laptop for under $500 and never have problems why have a custom computer built up?

From the 1980's up until 2006 I spent hundreds of hours building up computers and then trying to get them to run. I fought with Windows registration and anti piracy schemes for hours proving to them that the software I had just bought was really mine to use. Finally my son in law (An IT professional) took me by the hand and led me into the light. l have never looked back and my blood pressure has never been better.

[bill.young]

Have you guys been following the FabMo development?

https://handibot.com/forum/read.php?1,746,746

[cwho]

Hello


>jerry- What brand of computer are you trying to use.
It is a Dell - Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93 Ghz. 4 Gig RAM, Windows 7 64 bit.

>bleeth - Black Viper it.
Thanks for that link. I will do this. We do also lock down most features on the computers that control our machines (3d printers, laser, shopbot) but I have typically done this by NOT allowing admin rights.

>Brady - upgrade XP -
yep, bad idea I suppose. The 2nd or 3rd set of fans were starting to go. Rather than emergency scrounge together another xp box when the current one died I thought I would do a "planned upgrade..."
>computer brand/model
Dell OPtiplex 775, Core 2 Duo, 2.93 Ghz
>installed RAM
4 Gb
>Operating system
Win 7 64 bit
> what color USB you are plugged into
Black
> what version of SB3 you are running.
Version 3.8.26.
> Is this a 4G or RBK control box?
I don't know - It is a large welded aluminum box with Vextra ASD3011 motor drivers. The Shobbot mother board is PN - 001003-01.
The software About says that:
Control Box Serial # = PRSA11xxx..
Control Box firmware is 2.18
Port 4
Speed 5:0
OS = 2; 6.01

The machine is a PRT Alpha 48 x 94 with a PRS Z upgrade. We just purchased the new comm daughter board from Shopbot in Jan.


Many thanks to all for your thoughts

[cwho]

>The problem is really with Microslop.

Yes, I completely agree although I don't think that Mac is really the solution either particularly if you then layer microsoft on top of it. It is great your solution works but layer on layer does not see robust.

The problem is taking a general purpose operating system that has bloated in order to solve many disparate demands and trying to force it do a specific task that demands tight synchronous communications. As others point out, the solution to this is to turn off one thing after another until you get a system that is stable.

The solution to me is to start with a clean operating system and just put in the features that you need to run the bot and talk to a network. In the past this was really not practical to do this and it probably would have added thousands to the price of the machine. (custom board development, LOTS of programming)/ However, it seems to me that times have changed. Microprocessor boards complete with communications, I/O, monitor support, networking, OS and Development environment are cheap.

Bill - No had not seen it. YES, EXACTLY. It looks like things are going in the right direction with the Handibot. I hope it percolates through to the main product line. Just let me plug a USB keyboard/mouse and monitor into my GenX Shopbot and allow it to connect wirelessly to my Samba server....

Thanks
Charles

[jerry_stanek]

your problem is the Dell I can not run mine with a Dell 755 it will crash every time. I am running mine off an old HP DC5700 core 2 pentium never had a lost com with it. Before that I was running an HP single core pentium and again never had a problem with lost com errors. The only reason I had to change was the mother board died on it. I have tried to run it with a Dell 8400, 340 and the 755 and none of them would run it without com errors. Do a search and see all the problems that others have had trying to use Dell computers. It has to do with their USB ports.

[stump]

Back to the original rant, it would be nice if Shopbot would offer an upgrade, a Raspberry Pi type controller that would "drip feed" the code to the controller so you didn't have to worry about the computer setup, communication issues, etc. My laser allows me to control it with my computer or else just plug in the USB drive select a program and hit "start".

Of course I'm making the assumption :confused: that the computer is acting as a DNC unit and simply drip feeding the code to the controller.

[Brady Watson]

You need to get the Bot on its own Bus. Dell's completely suck for anything other than 'Joe 6-pack' type work. The USB hardware is not good enough to run a robot. You need a PCI (or PCIe) to USB 2.0 expansion card. Plug the Bot into it. Keep the kb & mouse on the motherboard ports. You may also want to try doing some COM tests with & without a regular old USB 2.0 hub plugged into the computer, then the bot USB plugged into it. This will usually bolster COMs but not always.

After you install the card - you should be good. Make 150% sure that you absolutely do NOT plug the Bot into a USB 3.0 (blue port) - it should be 2.0 - and don't get a 3.0 card thinking it is better/future proof. Depending on the OS and the chipset on the card, it is handled differently from one machine to another...stick to the 2.0 ones. They are cheap via Amazon etc - get something 2 or 4 ports - I've had good luck with Belkin but StarTech is good too. They are cheap...maybe get 2 if you want to try different brands, just try not to get the same chipset in both or you'll be doing the same as buying 2 of the same card.

-B

[Davo]

I've been using a MS surface pro 3 tablet with excellent results, and those are standard with a usb 3 port, so luckily I have not experienced any issues.

Also have my wireless mouse on the same iogear usb hub as my bot, sometimes run my thermal camera on it.

The only issue I've run across is on rare occasions using the arrow keys on the keyboard - the software may lockup sometimes....not sure if thats an issue with the control software or what, usually i just click the mouse and move the machine so I can dial it in to its location since its a wireless trackball, I can be at the machine eye balling its movement - it allows me to semi control it as if I had a handheld controller.

[bill.young]

Charles... under the hood a Handibot is functionality the same as any other Shopbot and uses many Desktop motion parts. FabMo is being developed with the goal that all ShopBots will be able to use it with a few hardware changes.

It's all open source and the development files are all on github if anyone wants to check them out.

Bill

[David Iannone]

I have a question about the controller. Keep in mind here I have not done a search for this question, but my board is a new one. The 4g Board upgrade I just did on my PRT middle of last year was new board, drivers, control card.

Are the boards, drivers, and controller different/more stable on the new Alpha machines OR the RBK box upgrade? Another words could I plug the 3 different brand control computers I have stripped down and tried, do not work without comm error on my new 4g board upgrade, but would they work fine on the RBK or Alpha machines (in theory)? I would have paid extra for the RBK box if that is the case or considered going Alpha in the future and left my slow machine alone. I love the increased speed and resolution, but man I am thinking I am jinxed lately.

been running bot all day, had 3 comm errors along the way and some lost steps also, but was able to recover and save the parts. Yeah I got gremlins all right.

Dave

[Mayo]

So far with my 4g board I have noticed two problems which never happened with the old board:
As soon as I turn it on, my FM radio goes nuts with interference. And it's plugged into a different circuit than the radio. The other thing I noticed is the 4g board seems more sensitive to electrical fluctuations. Twice when my compressor kicked on during cutting, it made the steppers lose position.

These problems, even though annoying, I can live with for the added speed and resolution.

[cwho]

I tried putting in new USB card on a PCIe bus. (still in the Dell though but as it is a completely different hardware implementation on a new bus it is not Dell USB. ) no luck.

The good news is that the problem is completely repeatable. I use the keyboard keys to move the tool. If I press a direction key for a little while and release, then quickly, without waiting for the tool to ramp down, press again couple of short taps. - like you were trying to stop the tool at a particular place - it locks up every time.

I have tried various USB configurations, keyboard on the new bus, sb on the old, flip flop, both on new. etc.

Has anyone noticed if PS2 keyboards vs USB work better?

Next step is to find a new box although that does not appear to be a robust solution for everyone.

This sure sounds like a programming bug to me.


I have a question about the controller. Keep in mind here I have not done a search for this question, but my board is a new one. The 4g Board upgrade I just did on my PRT middle of last year was new board, drivers, control card.



David, your problem sounds identical to ours, a PRT with a new board and nothing works. I would be interested in if you have a USB or PS2 (old style) keyboard.

Thanks
Charles

[wwaldner]

I ran into issue with keypad arrow keys locking up software on PRS Alpha 2008. I am in the process of getting a USB PCI to see if it would help, although I am pretty sure it is a issue with the control software.

A fix that at least keeps things from locking up, I changed the keyboard rate/repeat in the control panel. Hopefully this can help you as well.

[David Iannone]

Running USB keyboard and mouse. Standard issue from Microsoft. No wireless stuff on my bot. I try to keep it simple.

My best guess.... My old bot is funny, but I am chasing the ghosts.

Funny thing is the keyboard never locks me up. Even if I smash two keys at once. My machine just decides to stop talking to my control computer randomly. I cannot duplicate the error, but it happens weekly.
Dave

[Brady Watson]

cwho - check your PM

-B