Buddy Startup Essentials

[bluecollar]

I purchased my Buddy 32x48 and expect delivery in the first week of May. Between now and then I need to start getting essentials ready. I would appreciate any advise on key accessories (hold downs in particular) that I should be working on in the interim so I can hit the ground running. Advise on essential bits would be great too. I'm an experienced woodworker (but a CNC virgin) so I have most common bits.

[dana_swift]

Hi Steve! And welcome to your new world!

Bits.. I suggest get several 1/4" super "O" down spiral bits from Onsrud. That is a good all round bit, and for your first month or two general cutting is going to be challenging enough. Later you can add V bits, ball noses, and others of various diameters. I don't suggest the SB starter set, most folks wont use all those bits very soon and they can be purchased as you need them.

I now keep bits of diameters ranging from 0.020 to 0.500 for various cutting tasks, and eventually you will get a similar group that meets your needs. The smallest bit I use with any regularity is 0.062 (1/16).

Be sure to have dust collection under control, bots create LOTS of dust. Use the dust hood, it will keep your shop a lot cleaner.

At first, go to home depot and buy a sheet of 1" pink foam for about $10. Do all your first cutting in the air, then in the foam. Dont even put a bit in the router at first, just let the router move around until you see what it is going to do. It starts making sense pretty quickly, you wont cry as much if you ruin a chunk of foam. You will cry if you ruin a chunk of good wood.

Hold-down.. what an issue. At first just mount a sheet of MDF on your table and screw things to it. If you search the forum you will find where I have posted a list of hold down methods I use with my buddy.

Once your skill builds up (several days worth) try routing grooves in your table and install T track. That opens up your clamp options a lot. Consider using Dave Buchsbaum's cam clamps with the T track (you will need the 3/8 T track for that option) those work quite nicely and are quite flexible.

Where are you located? There are probably other folks nearby with a bot you can talk to.

What do you intend to build? (FYI you will make far more than you ever imagined.) That will guide your approach and purchases.

Don't spend all your money up front, you will learn about things you haven't even heard of yet that may be just what you need.

While the bot is en-route, run the software and get familiar with how to use it.

Read the manuals. It seems quaint, but there is a lot of stuff in there you need to know. You have already learned about the forum, but since you can read this, the manuals will be really useful.

Keep us posted- we like new victims, er members of the community!

Good luck-

D

[jporter]

I would also recommend a .125 tapered ball nose bit from Onsrud or probably Centurion to use for your first carvings. You may or may not know that some nice carving programs will come with the ShopBot and they will be good practice to get you started in tool pathing and hold-down, etc. Even though these carvings are already prepared, you can change the names and dates and sizes to personalize them, etc. But, above all, take Dana's advice and do some tool-less cuts first. This is a great little tool, and you will learn how to use it, but as always, we must learn to walk before we run, joe

[bluecollar]

Sounds like Onsrud is the defacto choice for bits. Are their spiral bits a significant upgrade from the Freud/CMT/etc double fluted bits I've used for years? Not meaning to show hubris to the powers that be, but can these get me through the dumbs*** stage? I had hoped to use these to start, along with a 1" 90' V-bit (is a 60' advisable?) and the tapered ballnose since I hope to pretty quickly incorporate 3D (purchased) artwork. Joe advised a 1/8". Since the 3D seems to be multipass (rough and finish), are multiple sizes recommended?
Dana asked about location. I'm in Flower Mound Texas, between Dallas and Fort Worth and plan to attend the shindig in Houston the 2nd of May. As for plans, I'm approaching this from a small business with a craft related slant (jewelry boxes, humidors, plaques, memorials, awards, etc). I've done alot of this type of work by hand and scrollsaw, so this seems to be a natural. For dust, I unpacked my 1.5 HP Jet dust collector this afternoon and will assemble this weekend.
I've loaded the PartWorks and have done most demos and I've also started the manual. I planned on the tool-less cuts, but I like the foam plan as well.
Walking before running? I understand the philosophy, but when your toy arrived, did you have the restraint, Joe
?
The response to my initial post has been what I expected. Very encouraging. This forum was a big reason I chose this tool.
regards, steve

[knight_toolworks]

I would not start with onsrud unless your rich. I have been pretty happy with centurion bits and they cost about 1/2 as much.

[erik_f]

When I started the hardest thing for me to master was the concept of hold down. I wasn't much of a woodworker before my shopbot...so maybe the idea comes more naturally to others...but I had get used to the idea that the machine was moving and not the piece. I mostly used screws until recently finding them easier to avoid then clamps. Also it was easy to design into the cad file safe locating points for the screws and then have the bot mark them for me.

[jporter]

Steve, you must have been there when I first started this thing up! (smile). You are right, it is always easier to tell other people to be patient. It is a beautiful little machine and will be hard to keep from actually cutting some wood. I am sure you will be well pleased with the machine as we all are and will be looking for new ways to use it, good luck, joe

[dana_swift]

SteveZ the question about why spend extra money on bits for CNC vs a hand router.. the answer comes in "duty cycle". When a CNC is cutting it is normal for it to cut continuously for many minutes or hours. There is always material being fed into the bit. That just doesn't happen with hand routers. Chip clearing issues become heat buildup issues that become fire issues.

SteveK and SteveZ I don't have anything against any bit house, and Centurion may work just as well (I haven't tried them- perhaps an experiment is in order!). My suggestion is the $30-$40 for a bit will guarantee that is not a problem. Later when Steve has tried several things and learned what works for his application he may be able to use the Chinese bits from the big orange.

I like saving money as much as anybody, but the question is how to be reasonably sure a beginner will have a positive experience. Its hard to beat Onsrud for clean cuts.

SteveZ- sooner or later you put something valuable on the table and "go for it". After cutting scrap for a while, put in that block of cherry, walnut or whatever.

Every once in a while you will make all the same mistakes as everybody else. You will cut clamps. You will break bits. You will cut into the table. You will forget to zero the Z. You will cut with the wrong bit in the router. You will have the part on the table shift. You will have something fly across the room at high speed. You will have the router move rapidly when you didn't expect it.

These mistakes happen less with experience, but more often with haste. They never go completely away.

Steve I am up here in Tulsa OK.. just a 3 hour drive roughly from where you are. I get down that way sometimes also. Consider yourself invited.. I have one of the first BT-32's and have been using it for just under two years.

In that time I have made a lot of beautiful parts, some very fancy scrap, some really dumb mistakes, and some creative spontaneous swearing.

Overall you will most likely find the machine amazing and satisfying.

D

[knight_toolworks]

except breaking a 40.00 bit over a 20.00 bit is hard. unless you really do production work and even then you may never see a difference between onsrud and Centurion except in the wallet. but it is hard to even suffer that price in goofups.
if you use 1/2" bits you won't break as many.

[erik_f]

I started out, like Steve K said, using straight two flute 1/2" Amana bits. These were steel with carbide tips and suitable for plunging. I never broke any of those
. I have just had very good results using a Bosch bit from the "Big Blue". These are made in Israel by Amana to the best of my knowlege. I bought a similar bit from the "Big Orange" by viper and it totally sucked.

[sixshooter]

Im impressed with this form, I am also a newbie, Im up here in Mankato MN awaiting my Bt32 alpha with a 8' power stick and a spindle motor and can't wait. I have a lot of plans but like a newbie I am a little intiminated with all the aspects of CNC work. I will be looking to all you pro's for some answers to some questions I will have im sure. Im also glade to be part of somthing very neat, I will soon be a Shop. Botter.

[dana_swift]

Hello Steve French- I found my BT32 to be intimidating when I got it too.. I was afraid of breaking something, and not knowing what to expect.

That fades quickly once you get set up.

It occurs to me to alert those of you just getting buddies that they come assembled which is not quite the same thing as "ready to run". With mine I had to square everything again. I believe SB ships the machines with everything exactly square. However the machines get a lot of handling before they are sitting solidly on your shop floor.

Be aware that when you get the machine you have get it wired to your power, then try some basic air cuts. When you are ready to sacrifice some "pink foam".. check the machine is square by drilling 4 holes in a square pattern in the foam and checking the two diagonal distances. If that is not equal there is no point in proceeding. The machine cannot be accurate until that is set up correctly.

If the table is not square to the gantry you can use the foam over and over making sets of holes until you get good results.

I dont know what SB ships as manuals with the current machines, my BT-32 manual was the same as the gantry routers and had no specific info for the Buddies. Hopefully that has changed by now. There was no "squaring" instructions for a BT, I just loosened some bolts and worked at it until I was satisfied.

Once you get the machine square and have surfaced the table. Then you are ready to "start". Give yourself a day or two to get this far along.

After that.. its a learning process without end, but very satisfying!

I'm sure we will hear from you! The best thing about the forum is you know you are not alone no matter what the distance.

Welcome and good luck!

D

[dubliner]

Hey Dana, did you get my email?

[dana_swift]

Email? Nothing recently..

D

[sixshooter]

Thanks Dana, Shop Bot hasn't shipped it yet, they said that it will ship out on 5/4, so I should get by the 5/7 or 5/8. I have to drive about 50 miles with a flatbed trailer to get it. I dont think the trucking company could get a 50 foot rig into my Cul-de-sac to unload it ( they said the only liftgate trailer they had was a 40 footer) o-well I need to take a day off anyway, I can't wait. Hey everyone Have a Super weekend and make some sawdust.
Thanks again Dana.

[erik_f]

Steve,
Make sure the trucking company has a way to get it from the dock down to your trailer. I went to pick mine up from the hub and the only fork truck was on the loading dock with no way to get it down to ground level. They ended up having to use a lift gate trailer to get it off the dock and down to ground level. It was very dangerous and pretty stupid on my part to expect a trucking company to actually be able to move heavy freight.

[sixshooter]

Ya Eric I know your right, I called the trucking company and they told me that they had a dock ramp to get the forklift down to ground level, so it should work out ok. Well I got to go to work Gotta make Momma happy.
Thamks Eric

[ghostcreek]

Welcome, you have found your best resource for your new machine. I wish to touch on a subject (from personal experience), Grounding of your shopBot. Please read and USE the following article,
http://shopbotwiki.com/index.php?title=Grounding_your_ShopBot . you will eliminate alot of possible problems down the road. I ran my Bot for a couple of months, then the grounding issue raised it's ugly head (during a big job of course), basically improper or incomplete grounding will generate electrical noise that will show up when cutting (mainly axis errors). Once I did that, my Bot has been putting 10 hours days.
Again, Welcome, and keep the creative juices flowing.

[dana_swift]

When my BT-32 arrived I had three other men on hand to help unload and un-crate. That was a very good idea.

The guy who drove the truck was so curious about the Shopbot he stayed for about an hour and a half and helped out too! He wanted to know everything about the tool. At that time all I could do was quote the info I had gleaned from the website and forum. If that guy came back today I would could do a much better description of the capability of the machine. Life works that way I suppose..

I'm with Michael on grounding, but once it is done, avoid the usual "grounding" witch hunt. In my years as an electrical engineer most reputed grounding problems turned out to be something else most often the problem was faulty connectors. (Connectoritis) Sometimes it is EMI but not as often as it is blamed.

When the problem actually is the grounding, more often the problem is TOO MANY GROUNDS. Ground loops cause more troubles than noise or EMI. Harder to find too.

The good news is that with a little common sense the machines "settle in" and operate extremely reliably. The subtle problems may show up in the beginning or later, but the main thing is don't panic when you have troubles. Tech support and the forum are worth their weight in gold.

But be sure to have a few extra friends around when the machine shows up. You will understand shortly.. tell your friends not to expect a demo for several days. It takes time to get the power hooked up, computer going and talking to the bot, alignment checks, etc.

Good luck!

D

[sixshooter]

Thanks Michael and Dana, Bot now not shipping out until May 11th, somthing about table parts, thats ok good things come to those who wait. I bought a refurbished Dell 610 laptop with Windows XP Pro on it on Ebay, and I turned off everything that Joe Johnston illistration said to. I will load the software on the laptop when I get it from Shop-Bot. I want to have a smooth transition for my BT32. Thanks again guys, Have a Great Day

[mikeacg]

Steve,

I had a 2 week delay on delivery of my machine back in October so I spent the time building all kinds of files to run once I got it. Helped me hit the ground running! Welcome aboard!!

Mike

[sixshooter]

Mike, I have been trying to make some cut files to run when I get my machine but I have zero time using any CNC software, but I have been reading alot of the post on this form and viewing the trainng videos, I am certin that with all the support a guy can get from the forum and Shop-Bot I will pick it up in no time and may be down the road I will be able to respond to a new Shop-botter myself.
Thanks Mike Have a Super day

[bluecollar]

Sounds like our tools are in production at the same time. I've got a similar delay. I'm spending the time working on some designs of my own in TurboCad, importing into ShopWorks, generating the toolpaths. Lots to learn. I'm new to the CAD world and went through the tutorials. Nothing like working on a real project to see what parts of the tutorials will apply. I'm running into a lot of vector issues where I've combined circles, splines, beziers, etc. I've got to figure out how to join these together into a single vectors for the Vectric product to treat them as one.
As Steve F alluded to, the shipping delay is probably a blessing in disguise. If I had the tool out in my garage, I'd be far more prone to make these mistakes on wood. This delay is forcing some much needed learning.

[dana_swift]

Steve Z- you are learning the things that experience teaches. The way to keep the vectors as single entities in PW is to create them as "polylines" in the cad package. Polylines can have curved segments, and then PW imports them as a single complete closed vector.

Another trick is to tell the Vectric software to allow more tolerance in matching endpoints of lines into a single vector. Usually there are not closely spaced vectors that can get confused, so that has to be used with an understanding of what is being imported.

Using the simulator on SB3 will save you bad cuts every time you use the machine. If it doesn't look right there it wont be right when you try to cut the real item.

D

[beacon14]

I've got to figure out how to join these together into a single vectors

Select multiple vectors that all touch at the ends to form a single path or entity; select "Edit/Join Vectors", make sure the icons are visible on the left and you'll get a Join Vectors window with tolerance options.

[bluecollar]

Dana hit it on the head, the issue is that the end points don't match up absolutely exactly. I'm trying to figure out the correct order in which to select the segments, edit/join vectors and what exactly the tolerance setting does. I actually learn more by the mistakes than by it working right the first time.
Funny how I've always considered the 1/32" or 1/64" measurements issues which were either sandable or something to be "snuck up on to fit". That's part of the paradigm shift I need to accept with a tool that demands this level of precision. I'm enjoying the journey.
Dana: I may likely take you up on your offer to visit you in Tulsa. Seems I'll have some time on my hands this summer (another economic casualty). Actually I bought the Buddy 2 days after my notification. What a great way to get some focused time on the tool, 'eh?
sjz

[gcox2]

I've been viewing these posts for several weeks now (among others) and I find many of the questions that are asked are ones that I also have. I think that one of the questions that was asked, I actually had an answer!......anyway, I got my Onsrud catalogue yesterday and am more confused now than before I got the catalogue! I don't have any specific questions now but I'll read the catalogue and try to decifer and then I might be able to ask with a little more authority. meanwhile I'll read and observe all of you botters. Thanks for being there.

[erik_f]

Gary...there is a lot to know about bits and feed rates and chip loads and and and...chances are you will go ok, with just about any reasonable bit selection and reasonable feed rate. The nice thing about CNC is you only have to draw and design it once and as long as your work doesn't require some tedious amount of set up...if you make a mistake you can just start over and adjust.

[dana_swift]

David- that is a work-around, but the problem can be prevented in the first place by creating the vector path as a single "entity" in the cad package. Each entity in a DXF file has a single ID number carried with it. If you get properties of a polyline in a cad package, it will reveal the entity number for the polyline. All polyline segments having the same entity number are automatically joined in both the cad package and PW. The cad package makes sure the end coordinates match to create a closed path. PW has only to read the finished vector.

That probably makes no sense, but once you see what I am talking about the "open vector" problem goes away. The problem comes when joining separate entities that we humans look at and are related visually.

Once I figured out how to create things in my cad package so that PW knew they were a single thing, my life got much simpler..

Gary- That is the way the forum works. Many lurkers getting great info, when one posts a question. Thats what got me on here in the first place, I was learning from other peoples questions. I had my bot for many months before making my first post.

As to the bit choices, there should be a guide in the catalog to select bits for different materials. If you want to know what bits some of us run regularly, I'm sure that you will get a flurry of answers.. and probably end up just as confused as before!

I select from the onsrud web site.. usually starting from "wood", then usually selecting the family of Super-O cutters. From there you pick "upcut" or "downcut". Downcut tends to hold the material together while it cuts it, but doesn't clear chips as well. Then it is a matter of picking a diameter that works for your application. At first a generic 1/4" "CED" cutting edge diameter, with a fairly short "CEL" cutting edge length. In the downcut list there is a bit 64-025 which has an "OAL" over all length of 2 inches.

That may not be a great bit for your purposes, but I keep them on hand for general purpose cutting. Not a bad place to start out. Get several, as a beginner you will break one or two sooner or later. Remember that just because it is optimal for wood, doesn't mean it wont cut just about anything else, it will, and very nicely.. Keep the feed rates around 4 to 6 inches per second with very shallow cuts until you get a feel for how aggressive you can get with your bit choices and materials. SLOW CUTTING RUINS BITS, keep the feed rate up. I made this mistake when I was starting. Use the cutting speed formula they provide, figure a chip size of 0.01 and you should get started just fine.

I'm sure there will be other opinions tho-

Good luck!

D

[sixshooter]

Dana, You-the-Man, with guys like you and Eric, Mike, David, the list goes on and on any newbie can get help with anything that they are having trouble with or questions about their ShopBot because there are people on this forum that have already had the same problem or somthing simular. This is great it makes me feel comfident knowing this forum and the people in it are there to help.
Thanks Guys

Dana I will be in Tulas on May 30th visiting friends with my wife and would ilke to meet you. Maybe I could pick up some pointers on a BT32, let me konw if might be possible.
Thanks
Steve French

[mikeacg]

Steve and Steve,

Search the internet too. I found a lot of really good files out there, both 2D and 3D, in a number of formats.

Mike