DELTA 50-181 Dust Collector Mods!

[backyard_cnc]

Dust collection has always been a shortcoming of my SHOPBOT PRT CNC router set-up and I recently undertook to make some drastic improvements. I have an older DELTA 50-181 dust collector that sat on a 55 gallon drum. It could move lots of air and had a premium BALDOR 2HP motor but separation of fine dust from MDF or the plastics that I work with was very poor and much ended up in the filter bag, quickly plugging it up . Also as anyone who has one of these is aware, lifting off the blower and lid assembly to empty the drum is a serious chore as it must weigh at least 75lbs if not more. Anyway after a few years of this I finally decided to separate the blower from the drum lid and build a adapter plate that would allow it to attach to the 6" inlet of a Super Dust deputy cyclone. The cyclone alone was a massive improvement but I figured why stop there so I ordered up a HEPA cartridge filter from my local woodworking toy store and set about making the vireos brackets and duct work to tie it all together. With all this done I now have a very effective collector and I just have to run some duct work to the SHOPBOT and then improve my collector foot on the table itself. Gonna be great, I just know it! Initial tests show the separation of even the finest of dust is nearly 100% with virtually nothing ending up in the filter bag. This is such an improvement that it just amazes me. It did cost me $650 Canadian dollars to do this upgrade but since I already had the DELTA it was worth the investment as a readymade 2HP cyclone at the local store was about $1600.


Gerald

[scottp55]

Congrats Gerald!
Got the little DustDeputy and a Fein IIHepa on the Desktop, and after a year and a half, the filter still looks virtually brand new and only about a quarter cup of superfines in the bottom(if that).
If the big brother, is even half as good...It'll be YEARS before that HEPA bag has enough to take out to the pile:) The red can is a Whole different matter(maybe add a window so you don't fill it to the brim or over!...only clue you'll have is reduced suction and the motor sounds different).
Every time I start my "Puffball" Delta in the garage now it makes me cringe, and emptying from the wheelchair is a CHORE.
Saw a few people got the bigger one, but haven't heard any long term reports back.
NICE not to have to drink sawdust with your coffee and find out what wood you were cutting by blowing your nose at the end of the day:)
Your eyes and throat will thank you!!:)
I need to do that for my big tools when I get a little cash together for my big machines in garage proper, now that I know the difference it makes.
Let us know how the 2hp works with that.
scott

[backyard_cnc]

Thanks for the comments Scott, I was planning to get the smaller dust deputy for my shop vac as well after seeing how well its big brother works. The cyclone design is so efficient I did some tests with no filter attached at all just straight exhaust and picked up a few cups of MDF dust and not a thing out the exhaust ( unless of course you plug it up solid and then it may puff a little out the exhaust. ! A great improvement over the original! I may add a small clear viewing window to the side of the drum at some point but its so easy to drop it and check compared to the old 55 gallon drum that it is not likely to be much of an issue. Another thing I did with this new setup was add a remote control for ease of use. No need to walk over to the far corner of the shop to start it up anymore!

Of course I still have to reconfigure and build new dust collection feet for the router itself and adapt something that will work even when I am using the pressure foot, which is most of the time. Actually been thinking of adding a set of clear plastic curtains to both sides of my Y axis car, held on by magnets so that even the router exhaust air which seems to move the dust around significantly should be mostly contained within the carriage area. This is just an idea right now and time will tell if it plays out.

Gerald

[scottp55]

I CAN highly recommend smaller DD for shopvac size(110-130cfm) as we have one here,and one on Northern Desktop. Bought replacement HEPA's(Ouch$) for both Feins and they're both sitting on the shelf, and will probably be there for Years. Only VERY slight discoloration next to the inlet on the originals, and easily blew clean.
Second Desktop is in his Dad's hand carving/oil painting/teaching workshop, and so far never a problem with dust:) He does have the mini-enclosure which confines chips better than mine without though.
My Delta's just a 20yr old 3/4hp, and suction suffers because of the original bag always being dirty:( Hate having to toss a mask on, so HAVE been thinking buying the Super, and then venting directly outdoors. Maybe give me better suction so I don't have to buy a 2hp(only a one man shop, so only 1 machine at a time). Be nice to rig it like yours, as that stupid sheet metal deflector tries to cut my thighs every single time I lift it off.
Yep, got an automatic to my Smartvac(Lighthouse/AllBrand motor?) for my RO station venting directly outside, and it's GREAT(except it's 2' away and I almost always forget to throw hearing protection on before starting Bosch:( ).
Another nice thing about HEPA, is that when pollen is REALLY bad...I go into the shop:) Pretty funny going into the shop for CLEAN air!
Some pretty nice innovations for combining shopvacs with DD out there into a single wheeled trolley. This Fein is dedicated to Desktop and Ridgid belt sander. Next time I get rich, garage will get Fein/DD(NEVER knew a shop vac didn't HAVE to scream), and Delta will get reworked like yours.
Oh...This was Fein HEPA after 10 months, even AFTER getting container that full. 2 weeks ago it STILL looked that clean after 18 months, but didn't take pics.

[MogulTx]

Guys,

I am currently using a 2HP Dust Collector straight off the ShopBot. It is the bag type collector. No chip separation. So, If I was to buy a chip separator, HEPA filter, etc., what should I be budgeting? For example, there is a system ( with too small of a chip reservoir) that is Grizzly brand. It is 1100. Is that retail? Is that reasonable? Is it a good price? I am going to go out and see if I can find comparables on the net...

Monty

[backyard_cnc]

Monty,

You want to look for something with a cyclone and a HEPA filter. I think 2HP is about the minimum size I would look at although that will vary by the size of your router and the amount of piping and/or tools you will connect to it. Including the cost of the Dust collector I started with I have about $1200 Canadian invested in this set-up which is about $1000usd. I am happy with the results.


Gerald

[backyard_cnc]

I installed the metal ductwork today to get the "Suck" over to the router. I am hoping the short length of 4" flexible hosing will cover the complete table without snagging but I may have to relocate my ceiling mounted air filter if it interferes with the hose. I still have to rejig the mounting attachment bracket on the router carriage as originally it was set up for a smaller pipe. The beauty of a SHOPBOT CNC router is it can make parts you need for your projects and with a few minutes in ASPIRE I designed some 5" duct hangers to hold the pipe along the ceiling! These were cut from some scrap plywood.

Some basic preliminary tests show that this is sure gonna be a vast dramatic improvement over my earlier set-up.

Gerald

[backyard_cnc]

so HAVE been thinking buying the Super, and then venting directly outdoors. .

Scott the main problem with venting directly outside is that it possibly evacuates much of your heat in the winter! You could notice a dramatic change in your heat bills! Maine doesn't get as cold as we get here in the central area but still likely a very real concern!
A garage 20ft by 20ft by 8ft high has 3200 cubic feet of volume and my 2HP moves 1100 cubic feet a min so will suck the interior volume of that garage in 3 mins and dump it outside! Would likely need sort of system to recover the heat from the air before sending it outside!

Gerald

[scottp55]

Thanks Gerald,
Garage proper is unheated/uninsulated 22X30' with 16'peak, so not worried at the moment. My little Delta won't do more than just separate the chips it seems, but that will do until I eventually go a full 3hp cyclone rig in the far future. 12X22' heated shop where Desktop lives, seems like I lucked out with the FeinII HEPA and the small metal can DD as far as matching cfm/vac pressure to the Desktop. Thanks.
Monty,
Spent several hours again yesterday reading threads/Pentz/Thein(just as confused now as when I first researched:). For BEST Fine separation, there are so many variables it seems best to buy a fully matched system, BUT many have used a 2hp system with Gerald's type rig for Grizzly/Delta/HF/Jet it seems they were VERY happy. Seems SuperDustDeputy Fine separation varies from 1 bag of Fines/10bags of chips(worst case) to virtually Nothing in the bag from everything I read yesterday. Too many variables. Get a True pleated HEPA like Gerald though from all I read.
Just a couple links to get you truly confused:)
My little Delta just ain't going to hack it:( so just going to shoot fines outdoors after separating chips, and buy a better mask.
Scott
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?20943-Thinking-about-a-cyclone&highlight=cyclone

http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20764&p=147088&hilit=cyclone#p147088

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?20693-Super-Dust-Deputy&highlight=cyclone

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/search.php?searchid=153176

[dmidkiff]

Are you guys talking about $1000.00 plus to modify a roll around dust collector? Here is a link to 2.5HP Cyclone collector. They also make a 3 and 5HP version, both single phase. They will also help with planning the duct work. I had the 5HP when my shop burned and plan on replacing it when ready. Just a few more $$.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TEMP1425S.html

[scottp55]

Like Gerald's rig for mod'ing an existing single stage for dedicated use he had because of footprint/HEPA/metal can/ducting.
Unsure of Monty's needs/machines.
Don't especially like anything(1 micron/seal) about this guys exact set-up(and he talks as much as I do which is annoying:) , BUT if Monty wanted to convert his 2hp single to a double..He covers a lot of the salient points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB9kc9pWJp0
Thanks for link David...How it should be done for a full shop.
Interested in your Fine separation Gerald, and how you go about your pressure foot DC:)
Think I'll shut up now.
scott

[MogulTx]

I only use the DC for my ShobBot. So this guy's solution would work well for me. What I was kind of confused about was the actual set up. His talk-through on it basically told me everything I was questioning in my head. I would be able to look at that and configure a system. I will go out and look at HEPA Filters. I have basically everything except a Can for the first stage and the Dust Deputy that would go on top, and the HEPA filter. And I don't get a whole lot of dust... but a good filter is always a benefit in a cutting environment!

Thanks very much, Scott. I was looking for some mystery in this... and there appears to be little or none! ( A picture is worth a thousand words, for sure.)

Monty

[scottp55]

Gerald,
I saw an 18 gallon can on Oneida's page while I was looking for $99, and I like the steel can with locking lid I got from them on mine.
Was Oneida where you got your red can?
What size IS your can?
Judging by 10gallon I have, I could probably do a 20gallon from the wheelchair,but not much more.
Was thinking a galvanized trash can that they sell up here for woodstove ashes and just fab a BB Ply lid with rugged gasket, but like the idea of all steel.
You're welcome Monty, but Gerald got my bu** in gear!
(not very good at shutting up am I?:)

[backyard_cnc]

Yes talking of mods I did to my drum based roll around however older DELTAs had American made quality electric motors, in my case a 2HP BALDOR whereas most ready made cyclone machines like the one you mention will generally have a Chinese **** motor. (Chinese AC motor can be hit and miss...........I just replaced the 1.5HP on my lathe which crapped out after maybe a few hundred hours of service. The US made replacement also rated for 1.5HP has loads more torque!) Also since I already had the Delta collector is was still cheaper to do these mods and plus I added wireless remote control. You must bear in mind that I am in Canada so that new $1295 DC is gonna run $1600 here in Canadian funds plus 13% taxes on the purchase. I am $1000 usd all in with this set-up including my initial purchase price of the DELTA collector. Still a good savings to be had for anyone who already has a decent quality blower on a non-cyclone dust collector.


Gerald

[backyard_cnc]

My red barrel with the locking lid is 30 gallons. It originally had industrial soap in it. I may eventually paint it and make some nice decals to dress it up like a store bought unit but need to come up with a name for it yet. We have a local guy around here who stocks and resells empty industrial containers in all shapes and sizes. Apparently this is a rare size that he doesn't often get so I was pleased to find it. It was $50 delivered to my house which seemed fair enough. I did have to cut the 6 in hole and bolt circle in the top but I have the tools here to make that pretty straightforward. I likely would have bought the Oneida barrel but the dealer I got the cyclone from didn't have stock.

Gerald

[scottp55]

Sounds like you lucked out...1/2 the price,almost twice the capacity:)
Oops, 17 gallon not 18.
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/154756/oneida-diy-molded-dust-deputy-cyclone.aspx
Locking ring OR a good gasket seems important, as only Fines in my barrel seem to be Maple(wood I was working when nuts fell off),ZERO Padauk/Bloodwood/Purpleheart dust in the Fein in a year, so pinhole leaks must really affect Fine capture by disrupting the flow.
Maybe have him keep his eye out for another for your shopvac when/if you go for the little one?
On metal can for the little one...the Oneida cans metal caster brace needed a little file work to fit right anyways. ALSO loose the gasket if you get the DD! Gasket allows plastic mounting rim to deform, AND I had 2 of the nuts fall off in the first week:( Took gasket off...used silicone bead...no deformation and sealed well (loctite blue on nuts this time).
Looking forward to doing like you, as emptying that cardboard Delta barrel involves getting it as far as edge of garage floor/tipping it on its side/and shoveling into leaf bag/sticking mag on lap and dumping on my pile:( Full mask and goggle job and THEN blowing all the spill.. plus me off!
MAJOR PITA!
Think I can manage a 17 gallon in lap, OR use 4" casters for dirt drive.
Thanks Gerald

[backyard_cnc]

Funny story about the barrel Scott was that when I started the dust collector project I just naturally went looking for a barrel on the local online classifieds and got this red one. Then several days later I went into one of my sheds and realized that I already had 2 of them full of sand that a buddy had given me when I loaned him my sandblasting rig. Can you say "DUH" but oh well these things happen! Of course these do have sand in them and they are not as nice a condition as the red one but certainly I would have saved the $50 had I remembered they were there.

If I buy the dust deputy for my shopvac the local supplier sells it as a complete kit with the cyclone, hose and 5 gallon pail so all ready to go no work required.

Gerald

[scottp55]

:)
I do that with tools! Of course sometimes I DON'T buy tools because I KNOW darn well I have one(only to realize the ex took it in the split or someone "Borrowed" it:)
IF the plastic bucket kit, a LOT of people say how tippy it is when empty.
Dolly with shopvac or weighting bucket seem to be best answers.
Good luck on dust foot!

[backyard_cnc]

Yes Scott, if I go with the plastic pail dust deputy I will likely attach it directly to the shop vac to make as a single unit that rolls around together.

I built a new mounting bracket for the SHOPBOT to clamp the dust collection down pipe and I also installed a large hanger spring in the center of the 4" PVC hose to allow for a non binding motion over the limits of the table. I shot a short video which I uploaded to youtube if anyone is interested. I didn't run the collector or router as it was a just a basic motion test to ensure unrestricted motion of the hose thru all 4 corner limits. Give the video a quick view, its only 2 mins long and please give it a thumbs up if you enjoy the content.

Gerald


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORcFKRRFWt0&feature=youtu.be

[backyard_cnc]

Well as a running update to this thread, I have now approx. 1/3 filled the red barrel on my dust collector and there is virtually nothing in the plastic bag on the filter, I didn't remove it but less than a few ounces of chips. This may vary when I cut MDF as so far it has just been PVC which has a small but course chip size. Still awesome though as even the PVC chips would end up in the filter bag to a certain extent with the original drum set-up.

Very happy!

Gerald