Powerstick Installation

[erik_f]

My 8' Powerstick just came via FedEx. It unpacked fine, but there seems to be a problem. I did sort of a dry run and set the guide blocks on the machine and there is not enough clearance for the aluminum table to go over the ball rollers. There are washers under the ball rollers, but it still looks like the table will hit the rollers with out them. I suppose you could take the rollers off every time, but the instructions don't say anything about that needing to happen. Anyone else have this problem?

[jporter]

I like my Powerstick, but it was kind of an ordeal making it work. I haven't thought about trying my aluminum table with the rollers. I just assumed they were compatible. I have no help, just my thoughts, joe

[dana_swift]

Erik- I had the same problem, I had to put thin washers on the v-roller bolts. Then I had to get the whole assembly to "run tight" again. It was a real nuisance.. but I got it done.

I hope the Buddy V2 systems dont have these growing pains.

D

[erik_f]

How dissapointing. Its made to look like it all works nicely together. Just to clarify, Dana, you put washers between the aluminum table and the v-rollers to raise the table up? Thanks for the responses guys. I'm wondering if it might just be easier to take the rollers off and on ever time the Powerstick is installed.

[mikeacg]

Erik,

I put my 12' PowerStick on and don't plan to ever take it off so I guess I don't have that problem. Just wondering though: Do you need to put the table back on - what are the advantages to that strategy?

Mike

[erik_f]

I think most of the time I'm going to be using the BT set up in the traditional way with the aluminum table. I have a 1 car garage I'm using for my shop so space is a concern. As of right now I'm just assuming that the Aluminum table is going to be most accurate in the Z direction for when I make boxes with slots and rabbits. If I can find a position in the garage that works for the BT without taking off the powerstick it could stay on...but I think it will just eat up too much space.

[dana_swift]

Erik- yes you understand correctly. The washers raise the Aluminum Slab (ALS) up to just over the top of the rollers.

Michael.. the reasons for putting the table back, is that most of the time I work with very small parts and the powersticks take a lot of room. Also the ALS mounted spoilboard is significantly more rigid than the powerstick mounted spoilboard. That results in a significant precision (perhaps a factor 4 or 5) improvement in Z.

I think it all depends on what you do with the machine. I use the 1/4x20 bolt grid on the ALS to mount fixtures so their location on the table is well known. That is another advantage of the ALS also.

D

[mikeacg]

Gotcha guys! I set my machine up by the door of a single and run it out the door when I need the added length. I don't do anything that requires the precision at this point but I will make a note of it. I have the old style table and powerstick so I can put it back on pretty quickly.
Mike

3594

[erik_f]

Your set up looks huge!

[mikeacg]

Erik,
That is a 48" Buddy with the 12' foot PowerStick. I have cabinets under the conveyor inside the building but I want to replace them with mobile units so I have better access to that space and I also want to put a wood rack on the wall above it so that space doesn't go to waste either. It does take up a bunch of space in the shop but I am using it for things I used to do with other tools. I also have most of my other bench tools (chop saw, sander, grinder, etc.) on rolling bases so I can move them around. Once I get everything put away, it won't look so overwhelming. I just haven't had much time to get organized with all the other work I have to do. The sign on the table is 1" Komotex, 29" x 139" for a local sign company.

[erik_f]

I sent an email to SB yesterday telling them how unhappy I was that the PowerStick did not fit as advertised. I haven't heard anything back yet. I guess its not that big a deal to take the support rollers off, its just the point that you're not supposed to have to.
Your set up sounds great Michael. Even though the BT is compact for a CNC it blew my garage up when I put it in also. It takes a while to get things situated again for sure!

[erik_f]

Washers under the support rollers on the Gen.I powerstick are what caused the rollers to hit the aluminum table. I hide my head in shame and retrack my unhappy email to Shopbot. I'm going to go burrow into a hole now

[robredick]

Don't hang your head in shame. Be proud that you are human and mature enough to admit a mistake.

Every time that I have an issue I seem to fight until I pick up the phone and call ShopBot. They are perhaps the greatest group of folks on the planet. I bought a used Bot, but, they treat me as if I bought it from them 2 days ago.

I only hope that my customers feel as happy as I am with the ShopBot family.

[dana_swift]

Erik can you post a picture of where these washers are located? I may have "fixed" the wrong problem..

Thanks

D

[erik_f]

There was a washer located under each of my support roller balls. When I removed them there was about a 1/16" of clearance. This is show with the washer still in place.

3595

[erik_f]

The roller on the left has NO washer the roller on the right still has the washer in place.


3596

[dana_swift]

Erik- I just looked my roller assembly has the same washers! #$%&***!!!! So I need to "unfix" my original fix, then fix the right problem.

That looks like a single assembly on my system so it never occurred to me that the rollers were sticking up to where they hit the ALS. I grow too soon old and too late smart.

I will first test to see if the washers make the top of the rollers come out level with the installed powerstick. If so, then my "fix" will go un-changed so the powerstick payload will roll on the rollers correctly.

Thanks for the photos!

D

[erik_f]

I would say if your set up is working for you now...then why change anything? Since I haven't had time to actually install anything...that is my question...will the rollers be too low to support the support deck on the powerstick? Let me know what you find with washer vs deck height of your powerstick set up. Thanks.

[erik_f]

Anyone find that the eye-bolt for the cam handle as being too long? With the stock eye-bolt the cam handle is too long and won't engage the motor. Unless I'm looking at something wrong...but that's the only thing I can see as being able to change.

[erik_f]

I know I'm posting posting posting here, but figure I would update the thread. I ended up using the stock eye bolt, but had to remove the nut that came on it. I believe the one in the directions has a longer thread than the one that was supplied. I can see now why there was a need for a second generation Powerstick. The Gen I is more like a working prototype or if it were software a beta version. There is an amount of "clunkiness" that hopefullly has been worked out of the second version. Operationally, I have yet to see how it functions, but it seems others are happy with their Gen I and are willing to put up with the idiosyncrasies. I'm glad to have the added flexibility. It would have been nice however, if the Powerstick Gen I had showed up a little better sorted.

[curtiss]

Do they make a "power door track" that will let you close the garage door ??

Good work tho...

[jporter]

Erik, I know what you are going through, as I said earlier installing this seemingly simple component was an ordeal.
about the extra long cam handle bolt, after talking with someone at ShopBot, I re-threaded the bolt a good ways which will allow you to screw the retaining nut closer to the eye end (speaking from memory here) which allowed me to slide the springs down closer to the rear which will engage the motor correctly. By the way, I found that the pinion gear will have to be slid out a good .25" on the motor shaft to allow engagement with the rack under the PowerStick. I don't really like it, but was told by ShopBot was ok. The reason for this is that the motor bracket will be too close to the PowerStick and rub. Keep us posted, It will come together, but again, not easily, joe

[erik_f]

Hey Joe,
Thanks for all the support. I just left the retaining nut off and was able to get the eye bolt to work. A couple new issues...man this thing makes me feel like I'm being a big cry baby...but anyway...The bolts for the mechanical stop on the powerstick that are supposed to clear the mechanical stop/prox switch holder still hit the mechanical stop when the cam handle is up...I already have too much backlash between the powerstick and the pinion...going any looser to get more travel out of the cam handle will only result in too much slop. Now, as far as position of the pinion on the gear rack...I noticed in some places I was getting a perfect alignment (no over hanging pinion off the rack) and in other places, the pinion was way out of wack. At first I thought maybe the rack was put on in a wavy fashion, but after inspecting it...all seemed to be (not perfect) pretty good. I took the Powerstick off and set it up on saw horses and gave it the old...eye ball for straightness. It looked like a 2x4 from the Home Depot, wavy as hell with a nice bow off to one side. Ugg. Not sure...but I might be done with this thing. In fairness Shopbot has been there for support and Ted Hall has even sent me a few emails. I will have to get in contact with them again tomorrow.

[mikeacg]

Erik,

That definitely sounds like a damaged stick. Mine went on with no issues. If it left the factory in one piece, it got a rough ride up to your place. Either way, it is not a good situation. I'm sure they will take care of you ASAP!

[jporter]

Erik, I agree with Michael, that stick should be straight. I had problems with the pinion and cam handle, but the stick it self was always true. I beleive I would send it back and get a good one. Good luck, joe

[erik_f]

Thanks guys.

[dana_swift]

Erik- My sticks (both 4' and 8') are very straight to sight along. It sounds like yours got damaged in shipment. If its broke.. nothing wrong with wanting to get it put right!

When you get a straight power stick I suspect you will be MUCH happier!

You brought up a really big sore spot with me tho- the lumber supplied by the big orange. Why do they insist on selling CRoP?

And another thing.. why are they allowed to sell metric lumber using "english" dimensions? What they sell as 3/4 or 1/2 inch is NEVER correct, it is some nearby metric value. The width and length are 4' and 8', so why is the thickness METRIC?

I'm sure there is a bureaucrat in the government somewhere whose job it is to require measurements be what they say they are. Is that the job of the National Conference on Weights and Measures? or is it National Institute of Standards and Technology? both, or some other?

I want lumber with the advertised dimensions. Is that too much to ask?

Off the soap box-

D

[mikeacg]

Dana,

Did you make that soap box on your bot?

Mike

[erik_f]

Not sure I want to keep the PS at this point...I love the idea and I spent the extra for the 48" with the idea of upgrading with a PS later on...but at this point...its just one more head ache I don't need. Between my business, my new house and renovations...I just don't have the time to go through all this again.

[Gary Campbell]

Dana...
This is ONE of the reasons I distain the plywood industry of late. (actually for longer than that!) 12mm plywood = .4742" (94.9% of .5") 5% savings on raw materials or a free sheet in every 20. or 21,000 sheets out of the same logs that used to do 20,000. Must be a quality issue, couldnt be linked to profits?

Gary

[dana_swift]

Gary - If you ever want me mad enough you can hear me cuss from right where you are.. just get me talking about the dwindling size of a "2x4".

I guess they will be selling matchsticks someday and marking them as 2x4's.

D

[Gary Campbell]

Dana...
I prefer to call them "engineered lumber"... which means I can make them any size, from any junk material, but does imply that an engineer (on my payroll) signed off on the design(or be replaced). Which is true. But then production made a few minor changes to speed things up. And management had us back off on the glue 10% and reduce heat press time by 17%.... And marketing kinda rounded up the strength numbers a little bit. Oh yea... that moisture resistant thing... that was for a light rain for no more than 12 seconds. We really never intended for them to actually get wet on a jobsite.... all of this was spelled out perfectly clear in the fine print on the back of the delivery ticket, which was required to be stapled to the order when delivered. Our salesman went to the job and found this in the puddle under the lumber, so you have been properly informed!

Happy Now???
Gary

[erik_f]

Sending the PS back with no replacement...just not sure if I can live with the compromises, even with a straight undamaged stick. As usual SB put up no fight and took the unit back gracefully.

[oscarg1971]

Sorry to hear that Eric. Hoped it would of worked out for you. -Oscar

[erik_f]

Thanks Oscar...I'm kind of torn, but maybe some other time.

[mikeacg]

Hang in there Erik! If it is meant to be, it will happen. No matter what you have the customer will always ask for more than you have. I've been feeling pretty sassy with my 12 foot PowerStick. Wouldn't you know my sign guy brought in a 180" sign today? I chopped his file in half and did it in two pieces. Have you got someone nearby with more capacity that you can use if you get a project that is more than your machine can handle? I just discovered that I have a ShopBot friend with an indexer here in town! Is this forum great or what?

Mike

[erik_f]

The forum is great. The people here really do like to help just because they know what its like to want to rip their hair out too. In the past it has been because of my lack of skill to figure out a problem. This time it was because I was pretty excited and was dissapointed by what seems to be a lot of carelessness. Thanks for the help everyone.

[erik_f]

In fairness sb has refunded me all the money and shipping. This was done before the unit has made it back to sb. Thank you to Mr Hall for taking a personal interest.

[hal_k]

I just received our new 8' powerstick, but there are NO installation directions included. I called ShopBot, and the guy on the phone didn't have any info he could send to me or direct me to. I have a big bag of hardware, and no idea where it goes. Do the support rollers bolt onto T-slots? Which side is up? The rollers are not in the center of the bar stock. Any tips would be greatly appreciated! Hal in Granby CT

[dragginbutt]

I have been following this thread from the start. I will admit I do not currently own a CNC yet, but have narrowed it down to this product (48 Shopbot Buddy with the Stick)
The discussions here makes me wonder if this is a quality control issue in their parts or assembly, or is it a problem with instructions not being up to par etc? Seems to me, the existance of a washer here, or the length of a bolt there should have been worked out in engineering and they should update the directions to preclude the confusion.
I agree, it would be a very frustrating endevour. If someone with experience is having issues, what would it be like for a newbie? Considering the amount of investment that has to be made, this would be an expensive learning experiment.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt here... What do you think?

[dana_swift]

Gary- if you are in the market for CNC, its hard to go wrong with SB. In all the forum posts its incredibly rare for someone to give up and return something. With other companies they would not allow users to post their complaints on such a forum.

I have had powersticks since they were first offered. And on this very thread I have documented some difficulty I had with the early models, also I documented the adjustment necessary. Perhaps it should be a warranty issue with SB, however like most users I have changed my SB around a lot from the way it was delivered originally.

SB still stands behind it. With almost all other companies, they use an escape clause from support "you change anything and void the warranty", not SB. Ok I had to add some washers to the original table after my PS installation. The powerstick did not exist when I bought mine.

I also use a modern BT-48 occasionally, and removing the 2' table and putting on the longer power sticks is obvious. Nothing needs adjustment or modification, it works from the factory. The one caveat is the powerstick does not have a deck on it, you add that to meet your needs. Personally I prefer this approach. The original supplied 24" deck is used to create the larger deck.

CNC is an expensive learning experience with any CNC. The question is do those of us who own SB machines have regrets? Speaking only for myself: none. I am still learning, read this forum and it seems everyone is still learning. Learning is not something I avoid though.

Dive in if you want to learn.

I wouldn't trade the capacity I have gained with the SB.

What may be missing on this forum is the hidden humor, I get to laugh at myself more than I care to admit. When you meet SB owners the one thing they almost all own is a big smile.

Make that a grin.

D

[erik_f]

Just to set things right here. I was one of the first people to get a BT48. The current set up is different than what I have. As well as the configuration of the Powerstick. The current set up is designed around the powerstick. In my BT the powerstick was an add on. Also the current version of the powerstick is a more robust extrusion and a more elegant design then what the first generation was. The first generation was more like a working prototype that we were aloud to buy into. The idea was great, but obviously need some smoothing out, and this is where we are at with the current gen II BT's. SB has always been more than fair and willing to go above and beyond to make customers happy. They are one of the best companies I have ever dealt with.