Alternative operating systems for ShopBot software

[D.Hunt]

Is there any chance of one day seeing MACINTOSH or LINUX software for SoftBot users?

I'm sure there are a few non-Windoze users out there: this DOS-like software is awfully nerdy.
It's time to graduate to a GUI-type thing.

[olivier]

I am a Mac Maniac and had the same reaction before I started to use my SB found it hard to undestand the choice of Dos at the begining. But here is my conclusion.

- Dos NEVER crashs
- The interface by double letters of the shopbot software is incredibely quick once you know it
- It is impossible to use a mouse in a worshop

The only thing that need improvement is the visualisation tools of the software (very low res, no interactive zooming etc..)

Olivier.

[Gerald D]

Olivier, I couldn't agree with you more! (on all points)

[jkforney]

D.Hunt
I can't imagine that the GUI-type thing would be Mac since so few users have Mac. Not interested in a "my Mac is better than your Windows" discussion, but only state the facts. I have heard that Shopbot was at one time planning on Vector CadCam being the front end for shopbot. That aside, just draw in your Mac Cad, export a dxf and the only two commands you need are FC (file convert) and FP (File Part).

John Forney

[wayland@merrywherry.co]

I use Virtual PC on my Mac to run Vector Cam just fine! I then output to a USB floppy and run in on my free 486, now running the SB for 2-1/2 years without a glitch. Why waste a Mac on such a simple task?

[kodama@austin.rr.com]

I design on a Mac with VectorWorks, a cad program. I am new to ShopBot but I have exported dxf files to Vector Cad/Cam running on Real PC on my Mac and it seems to work flawlessly. Real PC is cheaper than Virtual PC. It's wierd having the evil Microsoft Windows on my Mac but the machine doesn't seem to mind and it works. I too put the file on a floppy and run the machine from a 486.

[Michael Garrison Stuber]

I've been wondering about this one myself. I am a software professional and woodworking enthusiast with a proclivity towards Un*x operating systems. My shopbot is on order and hopefully will be here in April. Realistically, I'll need to do some really stunning woodworking with it for my wife before I'll have time to write much code, but I'd love to look at doing a port or at least implementation of software which can speak to the shopbot control unit under Linux.

[steven_seim]

Porting the bot code to Mac would be a pain, and likely a 1/1000 return for the work. Not that it cannot be done, its the accounting for MacsBug and AppleEvents that makes it tough. Said another way, system event and error handling would need to be built up. Shopbot would need to build a release for each major OS Apple produces. Waynes suggestion to run it on an emulator is excellent. This frees ShopBot to focus on a single code tree.

[mtgstuber]

I would really like to see a formal answer from Shopbot about the viability of other operating systems. (Are you guys listening?) Specifically:

(1) Would shopbot consider releasing the some portion of the shopbot code under an open source license so that an independent team of software developers could port the code to Linux or (insert your favorite OS).

(2) Would shopbot consider a developer program in which interested developers can obtain the appropriate source under a non-disclosure agreement and port the code to Linux or . . .

In either case I'm assuming that Shopbot retains ownership and control, and the right to use any code submitted to them. Think about it guys -- free (or at least minimal cost) development work.
While Windows 2K is the best OS Microsoft has released since DOS, I have grave concerns about Windows XP. Microsoft's focus on subscription based licensing and their windows activation system are very disturbing to me. I am not a software pirate, far from it, but I do not like a large corporation keeping tabs on me. I would much prefer to operate my shopbot under Linux.

[bwclark@centurytel.net]

Mr. Garrison,

I am not with Shopbot, but if you can program in C and have a fair amount of time on your hands there is already a open source machine control program that has been developed by the US government. It is called EMC (enhanced machine control) and is being developed by the NIST (the people who make sure that 1" is 1" ect).
Their URL is:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/
Also
http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/emc/

Anyways, with a little modification you could have your Shopbot up and running on Linux (though it probably would not use the exact ShopBot format).

Hope this sparks your programming fire...

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[mtgstuber]

Excellent! I do program in C, among other things. Thank you very much for the information.

[Ted Hall, ShopBot]

I'll chime in with some thoughts from ShopBot on this one. Yes, a Windows version is on the way ... I had hoped to have it sooner, but we were distracted by needing to get out a new Control Box this Winter and Spring. I'm not going to make any promises on delivery date ... but it is a high priority.

We too like the idea of "open source" and see the development of a Win32 version as the opportunity to re-modularize our components in a way that is compatible with an approach more like this. We are not likely to make the source code for our lowest level motion control drivers available, but rather will provide dll libraries with which developers can access these functions and use them in the context of their own "front ends".

We see lots of potential opportunity for more fully open source development in areas like file readers for dxf and other CAD formats, viewers, and all sorts of CAM functions. The ShopBot Programming Handbook has a discussion of related development topics and more details on our plans.

As to other operating systems ... this has been pretty well covered above. Yes ... it would be nice to do Linux and Mac ... but we are just not big enough to make this practical (and each may have emulators that we can run in). The need for Windows is primarily to make our interface more standard. A Windows interface will also solve many of the "connection" problems that are experienced during the process of getting users' configuration files cleaned up. Nonetheless, Windows itself is not likely to improve the way the tool actually works ... it will just make a fast computer a requirement.

[mtgstuber]

Thanks for responding Ted. I truly appreciate it.

I confess I'm a little disappointed. I am a software professional and I understand your reticence to release the low level driver code. Unfortunately wrapping the driver code in a DLL doesn't help me. It dooms me to Microsoft indefinitely. Heck, this could be even worse than the current situation. DOS at least is reliable. In fact there are several excellent non-Microsoft DOS operating systems. I understand that Shopbot might not have the bandwidth to support Linux. I can understand not wanting to do anything with Linux at all for fear that you would be sucked into supporting it and sucked into the costs that supporting multiple operating systems entail -- even if you're not doing any development.

That having been said, I'd still like to know if shopbot would consider executing some sort of non-disclosure with a shop botter or group of shop botters who would like to port the low level driver to Linux. Is this something you would categorically avoid, or would you consider it under the right circumstances?

Also, if shopbot is creating a windows version, how long will shopbot continue to support DOS?

[bruce@frognet.net]

I am also somewhat disappointed that open source is not being seriously considered. The Linux community is very quick to adopt and encourage ones who share resources. The DLL idea falls FLAT. The operating system that is the backbone of the entire internet is Linux, which was open and shared from the very beginning. I am not a software developer, but realize how beneficial the Linux "movement" really is. I've purchased RedHat, Caldera and mandrake Linux to offer my support, since my software skills are very rudimentary.

Let's move this along - ShopBot IS a Linux type machine - Works Reliably, Unpretentious, Kinda Bumpy to Learn, and priced to where normal people don't mind purchasing it. Please do some genuine research on Linux before refusing to share source code - call a couple places, if you must. Don't knock yourself out coding in a dark corner, share what you've got, and you WILL be impressed by the results.

That's my rant.

In short, I love the ShopBot we got, and can't wait to see some new ShopBot related software at www.linuxapps.com

Later.

[jim_melton]

My 2 cents worth,

I run my PRT on a 486/100 in DOS 6.2 and it runs flawlessly and NEVER, EVER crashes.

On the otherhand, all of my computers that run windows whatever all experience crashes.

I like the DOS interface to run the PRT.

Windows does too much crud in the background for me to trust it to run my PRT. It still is after all, a very buggy and unstable operating system.

Sometimes just moving the mouse over the start bar causes it to crash.


Jim

[kaaboom_99]

Hi guys! I would like to fire up this thread as I am presently looking for a laptop for designing on. My PRT96 is hooked and running fine (for over 2 years) with a 366mhz PC running win98. My thoughts on the laptop is I would like it to travel with me to my day job (in a factory) so having a MAC would be less appealing for theft. I presently use Corel v.8 for my designing but hope to purchase either ProfileLab or Artcam soon. At present, I have (6) PC running WinXP at home.
My questions are thus:
1) Will a Mac be able to run my Windoze ver of Corel?
2) Will a Mac run the Shopbot ver.3 software?
3) Will a Mac run Dos software?
4) Will a Mac run either of the two CAD/CAM software I intend to purchase?
5) Will a Mac communicate on a network with WinXp computers?
I don't intend to use this Mac for much of anything else but design and file conversion for the PRT.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Brady Watson]

How about saving yourself a heap of trouble and just put a macintosh sticker on your PC laptop? Or better yet, a locking briefcase with LoJak


ArtCAM doesn't run on Mac...Neither does SB3...and a host of other programs you will most likely want to use.

-Brady

[srwtlc]

What Brady said


And heres a good sticker for ya!

19
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[Brady Watson]

LOL!!!

-B

[jf_allie]

1-As anybody tried to run SB software with Wine on Linux?

2- Would SB software benifit from running on a real time os like QNX?

[danhamm]

A little update to this thread:
Just before going on holidays in mid june I received a "beta version of Microsofts Virtual PC" I had downloaded it to my (emachines 6810)laptop, We headed out for 45 days or so in the Interior of BC, yukon and NWT. I also took with us a CPE. this is a radio that can ease drop on (access points) or wireless routers from far away..One hot day in the 24 hour sun, I attempted to install this piece of software, and was told that it would only work on windows 2000 pro. or windows XP pro. or server software.
But was able to load it anyway, and later reading all the help info kind of came to a shakey understanding of what it was,later in the travels I had time to play with it, but didn't have much to install, I did have a cd with "ubuntu 6.06 amd64 on it but it would not install on the (Virtual Machine). Ay Watson Lake I was able to connect the wireless to a very speedy service and downloaded Ubuntu I386 ver. and also Linspire 5.. both loaded very easy, and both were able to pick up all the perifials of the laptop, including the smart cards.
Now what the virtual Machine does..is opens up a large folder, on mine its 17 gig..in this it creates virtual hard drives..and you load your software on after formatting for the software of choice, you also have assign memory amounts to this OS. I used to small and amount not knowing how things worked at first.
After we reached a sort of civilization..I was able to obtain a copy of (doss 6..) remember doss?..wow...it works on all the things it knows about the rest don't exist..Through all this, the only OS that gave any problems was Linspire 5, it would when on mozilla browser would revert back to the main page..and I would have to load it all over again, and it loaded slow..I havent attemped to use doss for any machine uses but guess it would probably work fine..there seems to be no peoblems between OS's and win xp..doesn't know they exist..to change from one system to another you assign a hot key..and when ones up the others are down..cheers Dan