PVC with LED lights

[joe]

A staple in the sign industry channel letters. I've made several attempts to enter this field but didn't enjoy the process. When I first came up with the idea of using LED's there was a concern about ut un-even light pattern. The first samples made were met with wild excitement from the customers. Looking back, who wants flat even lighting any way.

One of the side benefits of this sign method is ease of installation. That's because the background panel, which is nothing more than an outline of the lettering itself is the support for the whole sign. It goes up by bolting direct. Sometimes I have a two or three inch outline. The larger the outline the more reflective lighting will show. There are so many options available it's hard to imagine. For example, there could be several levels instead of two.
shown

The red & white sample was done using red vinyl. This left the sides of the letters, returns, their natural color.

I'm using .75" and 1" PVC. The glue is PVC Gorilla. It's nothing like regular Gorilla Glue that won't work on PVC.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26229&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26230&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26231&stc=1

[maverickx50]

This is beyond Cool!!! Your creativity and skill should serve you well. I only wish I had a bit of that ability. OH well if anybody could do it it wouldn't pay much for the effort. GREAT WORK!!!!

[bleeth]

Mav: Joe's skills as an artist and signmaker have served him well for over 50 years.
He is one of the most recognized craftsmen in the business and is known around the world.
We are quite fortunate that he shares his knowledge here. I just wish he would write that damned book already!

[johnh]

Great looking job and effect Joe. I'd love to see a back side pic of those front pieces to see the mounting of the LED units.

[joe]

John,

I'll post a photo of the back of the letter but there isn't much to it. Each little LED comes with a double stick pad. That keeps them in place. This kind of illuminated letter are too simple to believe. Excellent money since channel letters are expensive and this can be done by anyone.

Joe

[joe]

One of the considerations you will need to address is maintenance. Although I've not had any failures and LED's last a long time, it's still good to plan ahead. By placing the lights on the back of the letter, access is strait forward if the letters are attached with screws.

Joehttp://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26239&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26240&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26241&stc=1

[kurt_rose]

Thanks once again for sharing Joe. Can you please tell me where your buying your led kits from? Also are you painting the background or is it straight up PVC

[joe]

Kurt,

We like the "Mini's" made by ZLight Technology. They come from Reece Sign Supply out of Tulsa and cost around $100 a tray for 100 units. The transformer is approx. $60.

Although PVC will accept almost any kind of paint I leave it natural. Over ten years the white surface gets a slight beige color which I like.

Joe

[curtiss]

Joe,

How do you price the backlighting? The M (or W?) shown has about 46 lights on it plus a transformer somewhere ...

wholesale cost per 100 is ? Bid price?

if one light goes out do you lose the entire string ? thanks

[joe]

Curtiss,

The neat thing about these lights is if one fails the rest of the string keeps on burning. That way you can tell where the problem is.

Pricing, Dang it, I have know idea what the proper amount is. Here's what I do on all my projects. Estimate the material costs and the amount of time to complete the work. For example on the Boomerang sign it priced out at $4,100. We've made four of these and the time and materials are about the same. Makes no difference how many times we do it. The DeGraffs sign was $7,800 without installation. http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26242&stc=1

[robtown]

Have you tried routing a channel out to set those lights in?

[joe]

Rob.

No because that would take extra time and the LED's would need to be glued in place. The lights come with double stick take that wouldn't attaché very well to a routed surface. HD PVC is slick and a perfect surface the adhesive tape.

[jerry_stanek]

We use the led flexible strips they come 16 feet long but you can cut them every 3 inches

[joe]

Jerry,

We have some of the flexible strips also. Ours comes on a 20' roll. It didn't work for us because we couldn't get it around some of the small turns.

Please show us some of the signs you've been making with this product.

Joe

[Edgesigns]

Joe-

Been wondering what you've been up to lately! Perfect timing on the LED post! We are about to do a job very similar and I had worked out doing very close to what you are doing.
Did you get the picture of the Minco sign that Denise sent you?

-Chris / Denise

[joe]

Chris,

Please post the photo you are referring to.

I don't know what happened to all the pro sign guys that used to post. Perhaps there aren't enough full time sign people to make it worth their time. After all it takes extra time to take photo's during the fabrication process, write the copy and post. Same goes for posting on the national mags. Time is the magic requirement.

Joe

[jerry_stanek]

here is one we did

[joe]

Looks good Jerry,

Any details you'd like to share. Looks like neon!

[jerry_stanek]

The letters are cut out of .5 clear acrylic with colored vinyl on them we do a lot of stand off letters. Here is another one the letters are black sintra and the red is a push through clear plexi with red vinyl

[joe]

Jerry,

My complements on the signs. These look to be interior, neon fabrications. As we all know Black PVC doesn't work out doors. Aside from warping like crazy, UV will turn it gray in short order.

Do you work for this company or is this yours? I'm always interested in the methods used to build this kind of signage. Would you like to elaborate on the process and give us any hints about the way you go about it? That's what a forum like this is for.

Joe

[jerry_stanek]

I used to work for this company and then another trade show company. I cut for them at my shop. The first company doesn't have a cnc and the other company has 2 Biesse's a flat table and pod and rail that I ran when I worked for them but still cut their special jobs on my Shopbot. I can do it quicker and cheaper than they can in house due to they are not set up to do many one offs. Yes those are indoor but I have done the same for outdoor signs using dibond or HDU also some Plexi. I cut for 8 different sign company's as well

[joe]

Good for you Jerry,

You're a good example of how a guy can use his equipment. There are many ways to enter this trade. Perhaps you could assist by suggesting ways to get started cutting wholesale.

Joe

[jim shula]

This is a poor picture of an LED lite sign I made for a local tech company a few years ago. The rope light is held in place by a cove border in the sign and a mating cove border in the trim ring which are shallower than the rope allowing light to escape from the inner edge. The owner supplied the LED rope. 26352

[NMES]

Joe,

This is incredible. I'm new to signmaking and am working on a similar sign, 3' tall letters made out of PVC mounted to a corrugated metal building. Is there any chance you can detail how you go about mounting your sign to the building? I see some hints in the picture of the backside with the lights, the pvc blocks with a screw poking out that are glued to the letter.

Thanks,

Nick

[joe]

Nick,

One of the advantages of this kind of signage is ease of installation. The background is solid and can be screwed directly to the building. For ease of installation I like to place L brackets on the building wall to hold the sign in place while screws go through to faces.

I have another one of these getting ready to go and I'll take a photo or two showing the fabrication process. The size is 14" X 15'. Install should be done next week. This is done by others but I'll see about taking a few snaps.

Joe