Rough movement in the x y and z axis

[dbrannen]

4 month old PRS Standard 96 x 48 with spindle in a High School shop environment. Very few issues until today when we moved the z axis (either + or -) and had some not too deadly chattering / stuttering when it moved. Pulled the motor and checked the pinion, greased everything and tried it again. This seemed to make a little bit of a difference in the z axis smoothness of movement but it is still not ideal.

Now both the x and y axis are moving very, very roughly (not sure what terminology to use here...chattering / vibrating / stuttering?) throughout the respective ranges of motion. Doesn't sound like grinding gears but almost as if the rollers are catching. Everything is tight and we really don't have an excessive amount of hours on the machine yet (though we are working on it).

If anybody could help a bewildered shop teacher out I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for your help!

David Brannen
Southern Oregon
www.gphsmanufacturing.org

[dbrannen]

A couple more things I neglected to mention. When we shut the machine down and move the x and y axes by hand they are smooth as can be. Checked that the frame / base is still square and it's perfect. Axis motors are all good with no pinion issues. Sweepers are oiled and functional.

David Brannen
www.gphsmanufacturing.org

[scottp55]

David,
Just out of curiosity, what is your "packet ET" #
(do a single axis move about 4 inches/ do nothing else/type UD in command line and packet ET # is down bottom)
Is problem with DC running or anytime?
DON"T move spindle very far or fast by hand...It generates current!
Is it in one particular location or anywhere?
All USB connections clean, and wires not tightly bundled or coiled tight?
Nothing searching for an update, and no thumbdrive in a port?
Any wireless components in the loop?
Just mentioning thing I've run across.
scott

[Kyle Stapleton]

Looks like you are doing great work up there.

Post a video with sound, it will help out a lot.

[Kyle Stapleton]

http://youtu.be/Srv4kRnWbkw
Does it sound anything like the noise at the ten sec. mark?

[dbrannen]

Scott,
I'll check the packet ET tomorrow when I go in (not sure what that is but ill follow your instructions).
All issues are in the complete range of movement and not isolated to a particular location.
This is pretty much the first time since firing her up that we have moved the axes have been moved manually (we made sure to shut all electrical down prior to pushing carriages by hand).
No wireless components used but we did have a thumb drive in the monitor port.
Updates are current.

Reading your suggestions just turned a light bulb on over my head though. Earlier in the day we encountered an issue with the software that ShopBot helped us with. Starting the control software resulted in a yellow box "Starting Controls" and it just sat there. Tom at ShopBot walked me through fixing the software issue. I didn't personally move the machine around post fix but a very trustworthy student brought the "chattering" issue up when he tried to run aN inlay project.

I am thinking (in large part due to your suggestions) that we may have a software issue as opposed to a mechanical one. I will get in the shop over the weekend to run your suggestions.

Thank you so much for your expertise. If your ideas work I'll put you on our Christmas card list!

David

[dbrannen]

Kyle,
I will see if I can't figure out how to post a video of the issue over the weekend. I realize how much this could benefit my request for help. The sound of our issue will really tell the story.

Thank you for your help!

David

[dbrannen]

No, doesn't sound like that at all. So hard to describe but if I were to try....sort of like every third tooth of a pinion missing during movement. Probably a terribly lame description but it's all I've got right now.

David

[scottp55]

David,
It doesn't matter if the power is off. When we got our Desktops, Shopbot specifically mentioned that when we crated it for Craft shows, to either align the gantry with the vehicle in case of sudden stops, or use original packing to immobilize gantry/spindle. It can fry your boards.
Programs should never be run from thumbdrives, and thumbdrives should be removed.
ALL antivirus/automatic updates/internet/and power saving features should be turned OFF.
Has keyboard/monitor/mouse been having any issues?(Once a keyboard was dying/and once a HDMI connection was loose and had intermittent hard stop sounds on all axis)
Be nice to know what the software problem Tom helped you with was.
Does it sound like a hard stop noise?
Vid with sound like Kyle said will help the big guys the most.
Just trying to eliminate some suspects for the pros.
scott

[srwtlc]

As Scott mentioned, let us know what your Static and Packet ET test shows. This will tell you whether or not your PC's USB system is performing good enough to keep a solid data flow to the controller. If possible, don't use a USB 3.0 port. Run the test with the control box in some other free ports to see if one is better than the other. If you are using a USB hub, try it without. If you aren't using a hub, try it with one.

You can find information on this in C:\Program Files (x86)\ShopBot\ShopBot 3\Help\UD Diagnostic Notes.pdf

[jerry_stanek]

I would do UR and reset it to shopbot standards. It sounds like someone mess with the settings.

[dbrannen]

Scott,

As are so many other unexplainable things in this world, after avoiding the shop all weekend I come back in this morning and wander out to get the packet number you requested (13.0 by the way, which means absolutely nothing to me) I fired up the machine and it moves along all axes just perfectly. I suppose that it's possible that I came out here in my sleep over the weekend and fixed it but unlikely. Even though things work I would still like to get to the bottom of what was happening. Since I obviously cannot provide a video of the issue now I will do so in the event it happens again. I have checked everything thoroughly in regards to mechanical and structural causes and came up blank. Nothing loose, everything nice and square.....

I misread a portion of your earlier response to me. We do not run the software via a USB (neither VCarve or the shopbot control software). Both are installed on the hard drive of the pc which is directly connected to the machine. The only thing that comes off of a flash drive through a usb are individual files that students create then load for cutting of parts and projects.

Thank you Scott and Kyle for taking time to help us with these issues. I am so very far from being proficient with our new machine and knowledge like yours is invaluable.

David

[srwtlc]

The only thing that comes off of a flash drive through a usb are individual files that students create then load for cutting of parts and projects.

Are you running these files from the flash drive? Meaning, are you navigating to the file on the flash drive through SB3, selecting it and then running it from there. If you are, don't! When you plug in the flash drive, use windows explorer/file explorer to copy the file and then paste it into a folder that resides on the hard drive and then open them with SB3 to run from there. You could make a folder named ShopBot Jobs and then break it down per student or something like that.

[Kyle Stapleton]

You beat me to it Scott.

[dbrannen]

Wow, just when you think you have it licked. It was running smoothly when I got in this morning and fired it up. After several more movements in all axes (setting a new xy zero for a project) it starts grinding again. We uninstalled the control software then re-installed and voila! Worked smoothly again. Several more movements of the axes and it starts up again. I have a call in to Shopbot for assistance and will let you know what we find out.

David

[srwtlc]

Have you tried another PC on it? Different brand, tower instead of laptop or vise-versa.

[bobmoore]

Sounds to me like maybe a static issue. Search the forum for ways to eliminate static interference.

[scottp55]

Packet ET was even better than mine(17) so that shouldn't be an issue.
Like Scott W said, do you have any components you can swap?
Maybe read this;