ShopBot won't move

[Keith Larrett]

I was cutting some cabinets using the eCabinets ShopBot link. I have it set so that between sheets it moves off to the side and pauses while I clear the table and load the next sheet. The last sheet only contained one part, so I cleared the table quickly and it was still in pause. I wanted to run another file so I clicked on the stop button on the monitor.

Now the machine won't move. When I try tell it to go home I get an error and it says the e stop is on. I have checked both physical emergency buttons and neither has been moved. Tried to run C3 and the numbers are counting up on the monitor but the spindle/gantry does not move.

I plan on calling ShopBot as soon as they open, but any ideas as to how to fix this would be appreciated. I have a huge pile of plywood waiting to be cut and really need to be back up and running as soon as possible.

Thanks for any help!

[BrandanS]

I was cutting some cabinets using the eCabinets ShopBot link. I have it set so that between sheets it moves off to the side and pauses while I clear the table and load the next sheet. The last sheet only contained one part, so I cleared the table quickly and it was still in pause. I wanted to run another file so I clicked on the stop button on the monitor.

Now the machine won't move. When I try tell it to go home I get an error and it says the e stop is on. I have checked both physical emergency buttons and neither has been moved. Tried to run C3 and the numbers are counting up on the monitor but the spindle/gantry does not move.

I plan on calling ShopBot as soon as they open, but any ideas as to how to fix this would be appreciated. I have a huge pile of plywood waiting to be cut and really need to be back up and running as soon as possible.

Thanks for any help!

Hey Keith,

I am hoping this response finds you well. I sometimes get this condition when one of my axes are hard against the mechanical hardstop (normally the Z-axis). You can at least check for this quickly by making sure none of your X,Y,Z are hard against their mechanical limits.

I would power the machine off, gently/slowly push away on the Gantry arm in both X and Y, opposite of your hard stop, and push the Z-axis slightly downward. Next re-power the machine and see if you can get it to move with the Keyboard in all directions.

If that does work, try re-homing [C3] the machine. I'm sure other people will jump in, in a couple hours. I'm an early bird. At least you can get that check out of the way before the cavalry arrives. Good luck!

Brandan

[Keith Larrett]

Thanks for the reply Brandan. Yes, the machine was close to the hard stops. Yesterday evening I tried what you suggested. Powered off everything, and pushed the x and y towards the center of the table. I did not try move the z. It didn't seem to help.

I'm in the workshop now and am getting things started up. I will try move the z down and see if that helps. Actually the z drops automatically when I shut down and disconnect the air as the z axis has a pneumatic assist. I'll try your suggestions and hopefully between those and the dawn of a new day everything will be fine :)

Thanks again.

[dmidkiff]

I am new to the PRS Alpha machines and don not use e-cabinet link. If I hit the stop on keyboard I have to hit a reset button on the pendant. I know this is a simple fix and you have probably thought of it but just in case. Hope you get this resolved soon.

[Keith Larrett]

I am new to the PRS Alpha machines and don not use e-cabinet link. If I hit the stop on keyboard I have to hit a reset button on the pendant. I know this is a simple fix and you have probably thought of it but just in case. Hope you get this resolved soon.

I'm sure it is a simple fix and probably something I'm overlooking and will kick myself when I get it figured out. :) I assume you mean the big red button? I have two. One on the gantry and one next to the reset and spindle start buttons. I've pushed both of them and have turned them clockwise so they pop back out. Didn't seem to make any difference. Thanks very much for the help. I'm open to all suggestions, simple or not!

[Keith Larrett]

I tried Brandan's suggestion and moved the gantry away from the mechanical stops in all three axis before powering up the machine. No luck there. I've attached a couple screen shots of error messages I am getting.

First screen shot shows what I get when I try JH

Second screen shot shows what I get when I try move the machine using the arrows on the keyboard.

Third screen shot shows what I get when I try C3.

I have also check the breakers for both the three phase and single phase and they are all on.

[zeykr]

In your second error picture it shows input #4 on which says the E stop has been tripped. Your machine sounds new enough that you would probably have a NC (normally Closed) stop switch. (You can check under VN command). If it is NC, then any break in a wire or loose connection at switch or control box is the same as hitting the stop switch. If hitting the reset button does not make Input 4 go out, then a broken wire or poor connection in the E-stop circuit is a likely culprit. A stuck relay is another possibility.



I tried Brandon's suggestion and moved the gantry away from the mechanical stops in all three axis before powering up the machine. No luck there. I've attached a couple screen shots of error messages I am getting.

First screen shot shows what I get when I try JH

Second screen shot shows what I get when I try move the machine using the arrows on the keyboard.

Third screen shot shows what I get when I try C3.

I have also check the breakers for both the three phase and single phase and they are all on.

[bleeth]

Did you press reset?
It looks like for some reason you got a stop short.
This happens to me sometimes when zeroing z.
I use a 3.6 rather than the 3.8 software you are using and when it happens I have a light showing a stop on my control panel that I must clear first by clicking it and then pressing reset on my control box.

[Keith Larrett]

Yes. I pushed reset.

Your post made me check and I have two input lights lit. Input 1 and 4. I'm going to check what they mean and if there is an problem there. Thanks!

[Keith Larrett]

From the user manual:

Input Switch #4. Input #4 is set up to function as a Panic Switch / Stop Button. Anytime that
Switch #4 is Activated/ON, the action of your tool will stop, just as if you had hit the
Spacebar, and you will receive the same 'Stopped' message. When this switch is activated it
will also have the same automatic effect on Output Switch #4 as hitting the Spacebar. Your
tool will not function until the Input Switch #4 is released. Note that Switch #4 always
functions as a Stop Switch. It cannot be re-assigned for other use. By hooking the switches
up in series, you can set up as many Stop Switches on your tool as you would like.

Doesn't say anything about how to turn it off :confused:

[Keith Larrett]

In your second error picture it shows input #4 on which says the E stop has been tripped. Your machine sounds new enough that you would probably have a NC (normally Closed) stop switch. (You can check under VN command). If it is NC, then any break in a wire or loose connection at switch or control box is the same as hitting the stop switch. If hitting the reset button does not make Input 4 go out, then a broken wire or poor connection in the E-stop circuit is a likely culprit. A stuck relay is another possibility.


Thanks Ken. I checked the VN and it does look like it is normally closed. I will start seeing if I can find a loose wire. How would I check for a stuck relay?

[BrandanS]

Keith, Input #4 should drop after hitting the Reset switch, if it's not, there is a problem. From my experience, Input#4 will be high as along as there is voltage to the E-Stop Block; an example of this would be the E-stop remaining depressed. I have read in these forums about faulty E-Stops buttons, which don't "recover" properly. Try pressing both E-Stops again and then twisting them so that they are reset (normal running condition). Then press the Blue reset switch.

From zeykr:

"In your second error picture it shows input #4 on which says the E stop has been tripped. Your machine sounds new enough that you would probably have a NC (normally Closed) stop switch. (You can check under VN command). If it is NC, then any break in a wire or loose connection at switch or control box is the same as hitting the stop switch. If hitting the reset button does not make Input 4 go out, then a broken wire or poor connection in the E-stop circuit is a likely culprit. A stuck relay is another possibility. "

I think he is on the right path with the poor connection or stuck relay. Relays can wear or become fused in severe circumstances. For now, try Cycling the E-stops to see if you can RESET. If not, it may just be an open electrical circuit (bad connection) or a faulty relay. If it comes to this point I would get ShopBot's support.

[Keith Larrett]

I opened up the pendants on the emergency stops. I didn't see or feel any loose wires. When I push on the switches they depress and release easy and don't appear to be sticking at all.

I also checked inside the control panel. While I'm not really sure about anything that is going on in there, I didn't see any obvious loose wires or connections.

The reset button does not seem to be turning input 4 off.

[BrandanS]

Maybe a silly question, Keith, but have you tried restarting your software or rebooting your PC? It would be difficult for me to help you diagnose an electrical issue, I would recommend getting SB Support. Post back when you have a moment, and let us know if you resolve the issue.

[Keith Larrett]

Maybe a silly question, Keith, but have you tried restarting your software or rebooting your PC? It would be difficult for me to help you diagnose an electrical issue, I would recommend getting SB Support. Post back when you have a moment, and let us know if you resolve the issue.

No silly questions here Brandan. Yes, I have restarted both the software and the PC a number of times. It's normally my first response to most computer related problems :)

I plan on calling ShopBot tech support when they open for business. It would be great to sort this out and start cutting the pile of plywood waiting!

I really appreciate everyone taking time out of your day to try and help me!!

[Keith Larrett]

To follow up ...

I just got off the phone with David at ShopBot. The machine is back up and running. We ran continuity tests and determined there was nothing wrong with either of the e stops or the reset button.

We then ran VN and turned input 4 off. The machine came back to life and started moving again. This would have enabled me to use the machine but not be able to use the emergency stop buttons, just the space bar. We then turned input 4 back to nominally closed, expecting the problem to reappear, but lo and behold, the machine carried on working like normal. Ran a few tests moving it around and hitting the stop buttons and everything seems to be working fine.

It seems that turning input 4 off and on again via VN did some sort of software reset or something.

The jury is still out as to why the problem occurred, but we are wondering if there was some sort of conflict between the ShopBot Link and the ShopBot Software, exasperated by user error, namely me hitting the stop key at the wrong time or something.

Much relief, everything seems to back to normal now. Thanks again to everyone who took time out of their day to offer some advice. And a very big thank you to David and the ShopBot support team for spending the time to help me resolve this!!

[srwtlc]

Keith, just out of curiosity, what version of SB3.8.XX are you running? There were versions that if you stopped motion with the spacebar/enter/stop on screen during a jog to another location, it could cause similar issues. That combined with eCabs could be an issue. Current version is 3.8.40 and has been good so far for me with anything like that.

[Keith Larrett]

Keith, just out of curiosity, what version of SB3.8.XX are you running? There were versions that if you stopped motion with the spacebar/enter/stop on screen during a jog to another location, it could cause similar issues. That combined with eCabs could be an issue. Current version is 3.8.40 and has been good so far for me with anything like that.

I am running SB3.8.40. This is the first time I've had any issues like this. Traditionally, any issues I've had have been operator error :)

[dmidkiff]

Glad you got it going. This is a great forum and ShopBot support is awesome.

[guitarwes]

Please explain to a newbie what "VN" means and what it does.

Glad you got back up and are making chips again.

[myxpykalix]

Keith...another thing you can do when you have these unexplained goblins pop up...
Do a complete shut down like you were advised to do earlier, however

You need to shut the machine down, then the computer then go over to the power supply for youir bot whether it is a circuit breaker or plugin or whatever and turn that off. Then repower

The reason for that is that just shutting down your control box and computer DOES NOT release the memory in the box and if that is where your goblins are hiding a normal shut down will not fix your problem. Try that next time you have this issue...

[Keith Larrett]

Please explain to a newbie what "VN" means and what it does.

Glad you got back up and are making chips again.

I'm probably not the best person to explain, there are others with a lot more experience here, but I'll give it a shot. The VN command is in the ShopBot software and opens a table show the values assigned to the various input switches. For example, Input switch 4 is assigned to the emergency stop and using the VN command you can turn it on or off or assign it to be nominally open or closed.

You can read more about it in this document:

http://www.shopbottools.com/ShopBotDocs/files/ComRef.pdf

[Keith Larrett]

Keith...another thing you can do when you have these unexplained goblins pop up...
Do a complete shut down like you were advised to do earlier, however

You need to shut the machine down, then the computer then go over to the power supply for youir bot whether it is a circuit breaker or plugin or whatever and turn that off. Then repower

The reason for that is that just shutting down your control box and computer DOES NOT release the memory in the box and if that is where your goblins are hiding a normal shut down will not fix your problem. Try that next time you have this issue...

Thanks Jack. I'll remember to do that next time I have a problem.

[coryatjohn]

Keith...another thing you can do when you have these unexplained goblins pop up...
Do a complete shut down like you were advised to do earlier, however

You need to shut the machine down, then the computer then go over to the power supply for youir bot whether it is a circuit breaker or plugin or whatever and turn that off. Then repower

The reason for that is that just shutting down your control box and computer DOES NOT release the memory in the box and if that is where your goblins are hiding a normal shut down will not fix your problem. Try that next time you have this issue...

With my SB, when power is switched off, the line is cut and there is no power at all to the controller. Open your controller box and take a look at the switch. It's a hard connection, not a soft one.

If the computer is just switched to sleep and not shut down, removing power won't clear the memory. That would require a shutdown and not just a power off to sleep. If the computer was put to sleep and the power switched off at the breaker, power restored and the computer woken up, the memory would also be restored as it was prior to the breaker being cut.

[don_roy]

hi KEITH,
i'M A PRT GUY but it looks to me by your pictures that you probably have your z touch off wire shorted on some thing. It doesn't take much of a nick move the wire around an make sure it isn't pinched.
Don