Vcarve

[xtreme872]

I am looking to Vcarve my first HDU sign. the size is 47.5"x77.5" out of 1" 15lb HDU. Looking for some help on bit types and tips? was thinking about routing .25"-.3875" depth?

[joe]

Not enough information.

What does it look like?

[RossMosh]

I bought a piece of 1" 20lbs DUNA HDU for a panel about the same size as yours. Once it was in my hands, I knew it was a mistake and got a piece of 1" PVC instead. The only reason I considered HDU for the project was weight and after I figured in the metal structure required to keep the HDU flat and stable, based on some rough math I figured the PVC would only weigh a few pounds more. PVC was used as is, with no metal structure, was painted a relatively dark purple and hasn't bowed/bent at all.

[xtreme872]

28501

Her is pic

[joe]

This is a high order for a newbee.

What you may not understand the stroke of the letter, when using a Vbit, will call out the depth of cut. What you should do is purchase a couple of MDF panels and start experimenting. The best instruction in the world isn't as good as experience.

Looks like you will be painting down in the well of the letters with yellow or gold. This needs some consideration. It's not all that easy for a first time out.

[xtreme872]

I have been doing signs for 18 years. I have did many routed signs, with someone else routing them for me and me doing the finish

[joe]

Great, then you know about the stroke and depth of cut. I'd suggest if you're letters on Baptist are approx. 6" high with a letter stroke of .70" then you're depth of cut will be close to .70" depth if using a 90 degree V bit. You've probably want a 120 degree bit.

Please post some photo's of the signs you've cone.

Joe

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28502&stc=1

[Alex Naumenko]

I would recommend to prepaint panel black and apply paint mask. Carve it thru paint mask with 120 bit. start painting with a first coat same as a color of the background.

[xtreme872]

So on my tallest letter I have a height of 6" on the capital letters and a stroke of roughly 1", I am gonna order a 120 degree bit? Any particular one better than others? what would this depth be? is there a way to figure it? I am gonna be using 1" HDU with an aluminum frame between the 2 signs.

[RossMosh]

Assuming you're using V-Carve Pro or the ShopBot version, when you program the toolpaths, it will tell you the depth. I've used Magnate 120* v-bits and I feel they are worth the money. Can buy them on Amazon for around $40. Based on the info you're giving, I'm going to guess going to a 140-150* bit would likely be best unless you're willing to go to a 1.5" thick panel. Punching the numbers in your software will quickly tell you what bit you want to use.

As for the process to paint, it's all been covered before and it seems like it's something you're experienced with. The "tricks" I can tell you are.

1. Flat sheet goods and flat spoil board make for consistent routing.
2. Paint compatibility is key. Some paints just don't play nicely with each other. Some paints don't play nicely with masking material. Assuming you're not using Matthews or automotive paints, I can tell you the paints Joe has recommended in the past work well. For a panel like that, I'd use DTM or Ronan enamel.
3. Let the paint dry. This material doesn't absorb and breathe like wood. I typically put 3 coats on my panels, because I'm nuts. For the base coat, I paint in the morning, and let it dry a full 24 hours. The second coat goes on the next morning and an additional coat before I leave for the day. Then again, let dry for 24 hours minimum. Then masking goes on. Let it sit for a few hours. Then it's time to route.

[joe]

Ross,

Once again this is a tall order for one to take on first time out. I'd suggest buying a sheet of MDF for the trial. Masking must be done just right to have it come off right. I've given up on masking by using a brush. Much faster!

In our league this is a $3000, sign with 23k gold. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't end up with fake gold or some kind Ocre paint. Which is a saving of $500.

As we know HDU doesn't like screws so it's going to be interesting the installation process. I bet there are screws used on the frame to HDU.

[joe]

Ross,

Once again this is a tall order for one to take on first time out. I'd suggest buying a sheet of MDF for the trial. Masking must be done just right to have it come off right. I've given up on masking by using a brush. Much faster!

In our league this is a $3000, sign with 23k gold. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't end up with fake gold or some kind Ocre paint. Which is a saving of $500.
If this is a double sided sign the price will be in the 5K area. It would take two sheets of material.

As we know HDU doesn't like screws so it's going to be interesting the installation process. I bet there are screws used on the frame to HDU.

[xtreme872]

We use mostly matthews paint. We usually prime with matthews primer and then spray the base coat and sometimes clear coat as well.

Joe, This is my first time v carving not making a sign. 285032850428505I have already started playing with the MDF I actually sold this sign for over $3,000.00 with NO Gold Leaf. I have mounted and sold many HDU Signs over the years WITH frames similar to this one.. I have not had any trouble screwing or bolting to aluminum frames if its done right. Her are some we have done...

The South Hill Sign we did 8 of these.. The park Rules we did 8 of those and the Top Gun is a 5'x8' with woodgrain background. with a 6" wide aluminum frame between the 2 signs to achieve the depth needed to look right with the columns and wall

[joe]

X

Beautiful signs. It's good to see a creative signs like these. We need more experienced artists like yourself.

There are several sign guys who can give in dept suggestion about Vcarving. Hope they drop by and chime in. In the mean time Ross is on board and he's one of the pro's with experience to share.

Since we have no idea of who you are, I'll just continue using the "X" in reference. Like Ross I like to know who I'm working with. It makes the process more personal.

[xtreme872]

also Just curious? What are you using for primers and paints? We have been using matthews which is very nice but also very expensive.. Just seeing what everyone else is happy with?

[joe]

Paints and primers for 15lb HDU.

The good thing about this material it accepts just about any kind of primer. One should keep in mind making a slick smooth surface isn't as easy as making one with that's lightly textured. For my slick surfaces I option to use PVC. No primer is needed and it's close to perfect with any semi-gloss or flat paint.

I don't know if you're informed about the Critter spray gun but it's cheap and does an excellent job with the heavier paints. Just about any acrylic latex primer would be my choice. This isn't a fussy decision. If you plan on masking and gilding I'd encourage you to go with a flat latex paint. The DTM (Direct to Metal) latex is good. Most major brands have the DTM version.

One of the steps in what you're up to is masking. The commercial masks, used by vinyl shops, are all good. However if you're masking over a textured surface, even a lightly textured one, will cause you trouble. Previously I've posted on my invention of using rubber cement over textures. It may be time for me to go over this technique again. I've had a couple of PM in the last week wanting another step by step. At this time I'm working 120% so it may take me a little time.

There's never enough information about masking. It's a tricky process because every surface seems to be different.

Check to see if Amazon has the critter. You won't be sorry.

[dvmike]

Just to chime in on a semi-pld thread .....
When doing a V-Carve try several different ideas on depth of cut and check your previews closely . They replicate pretty much spot on . It's an easy way to make sure you are close and free .
I'm using Aspire 3.something.something ! LOL They have an upgrade about every 15 minutes so I'm not sure . But the V-Carve and 3D stuff is spot on in previews , and since signage is about cosmetics , that will be great .
On finishes ? There are tons of options depending on what you are doing . But as a general rule I use Benjamin Moore Aura paints with primer in the paint . It fills great ! Not as expensive as some , but still runs about $65 a gallon ,give or take .
On some projects I do a ton of sanding to get the HDU as smooth as possible . I use Duna board most often and the sanding is a pain but makes a real difference . The Duna isn't as difficult as Sign Foam and some other brands and sands wonderfully ! But you still have to be careful and do a uniform sanding with a high grit number , or you'll have shinny spots and smooth spots .
Like I say it depends on the project .
I do a lot of woodgrain rustic signs in the mountains and the only issue with smoothness is lettering and borders and such . I do a lot of King Color Core and that has no painting involved .
One thing is for sure ! If you keep taking the advice of people with tons of experience like Joe , you'll get it in no time ......with experience !
Good luck !