New shop ideas

[Tim Lucas]

Hi all,
I am getting ready to build a new shop and wanted to get ideas - seen other post like this and learned a lot, so would like your input.

So far I am looking at a metal building, concrete floor, spray insulation.

I am in Florida so no floor heat will be needed.

Think I am settling on a 40' x 100' x 14' with a 2:12 pitch

Was thinking a 16' awning down one side but now not so sure.

Think I want to be able to drive through the building across the 40'

I am in a 24' x 32' two story building we built in 96 and it is real tight, I build RTA and custom cabinets along with custom furniture. Some equipment includes 4x8 cnc, 24" sander, table saw, shapers, 13 & 15 & 20" planers, band saw, small lathe and such.

Below is a rendering of a possibility

Thanks in advance
Tim

28583

[willmorgan]

Not sure about everybody else but I find myself always wishing I had more drive in doors, lots of drop down power and air!

[Keith Larrett]

Things that I have found useful or wish I had:

Three phase power.
Spray booth/dedicated finishing area.
Empty space for assembly and staging while waiting for pick up/delivery.
Space for a 4x8 workbench in front of the CNC and directly behind a roll up door. Slide sheets off the truck onto the workbench and then onto the CNC. I have a large Kreg workbench on castors and it works great.
Insulation and air conditioning :)

[chiloquinruss]

I have a high ceiling / clearance and it sure is nice when swinging 'stuff' around. What I wished I had in my 40x50 shop is 'Spray booth/dedicated finishing area". Russ

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28593&stc=1

[Davo]

That's an impressive setup with all the PVC on the walls, clean layout

[Tim Lucas]

Not sure about everybody else but I find myself always wishing I had more drive in doors, lots of drop down power and air!
My son and I were talking about drop down air last night and I was think only one or two drops over an assembly table, will have to consider more, thanks

[Tim Lucas]

Things that I have found useful or wish I had:

Three phase power.
Spray booth/dedicated finishing area.
Empty space for assembly and staging while waiting for pick up/delivery.
Space for a 4x8 workbench in front of the CNC and directly behind a roll up door. Slide sheets off the truck onto the workbench and then onto the CNC. I have a large Kreg workbench on castors and it works great.
Insulation and air conditioning :)

Thanks Keith, I was thinking of putting the CNC in a back corner but now will bring it close the drive through area, planning on spray foam insulation and A/C

[Tim Lucas]

"I have a high ceiling / clearance and it sure is nice when swinging 'stuff' around. What I wished I had in my 40x50 shop is Spray booth/dedicated finishing area". Russ



I have always liked looking at pics of your shop - My side wall will be 14' and should be 17' in the center, hope that will be enough - Yes I have a dedicated spray area now and will in the new shop also

[scottp55]

Tim,
If monolithic slab, then a thermal break on the outside, if small frost wall, then thermal break on inside of frost wall. It isolates your slab/sub slab earth and gives you a lot of thermal mass and will save you cooling costs.
Russ,
Did you run any power under the slab?
Does your 8' ply wall go all around? Great for shelving/tools/vac runs/ad infinitum:)
Love how most of your work surfaces are the same height as your trolleys.
scott

[Tim Lucas]

Tim,
If monolithic slab, then a thermal break on the outside, if small frost wall, then thermal break on inside of frost wall. It isolates your slab/sub slab earth and gives you a lot of thermal mass and will save you cooling costs.
Russ,
Did you run any power under the slab?
Does your 8' ply wall go all around? Great for shelving/tools/vac runs/ad infinitum:)
Love how most of your work surfaces are the same height as your trolleys.
scott

Scott, not sure I understand - what would be used as a thermal brake? we just put a moisture barrier (plastic) then concrete

[scottp55]

Tim,
Up to 80% of heating/cooling can be lost through heat transfer in uninsulated slabs.
For monolithic slabs, the easiest way is to simply put insulation on the concrete forms, and let the pressure of the concrete hold it flat.
Something is needed to protect blue foam from UV/etc. I used treated plywood on my house 19 yrs ago and still good, and just mason nailed or Tapcon'd as needed, but imagine there are other things available now. Ask contractors, but maybe avoid stucco as it can peel:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_6T0G-Cny8
Cheap way to save a lot of cash over the years.
With the slab and the earth underneath it creates a huge thermal mass...It's whats keeping my house at 72F now, when it's 85F outside right now(No AC here):)
Hope it helps.
scott

[Tim Lucas]

Tim,
Up to 80% of heating/cooling can be lost through heat transfer in uninsulated slabs.
For monolithic slabs, the easiest way is to simply put insulation on the concrete forms, and let the pressure of the concrete hold it flat.
Something is needed to protect blue foam from UV/etc. I used treated plywood on my house 19 yrs ago and still good, and just mason nailed or Tapcon'd as needed, but imagine there are other things available now. Ask contractors, but maybe avoid stucco as it can peel:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_6T0G-Cny8
Cheap way to save a lot of cash over the years.
With the slab and the earth underneath it creates a huge thermal mass...It's whats keeping my house at 72F now, when it's 85F outside right now(No AC here):)
Hope it helps.
scott

Ok, not sure if that would be good here, a Hard winter is 3 or 4 times All winter we drop below 20F so our soil freeze depth is maybe .25 inch. Summer is a little different and I could see how it may help but not sure it would be worth the cost, my dogs only have to dig down a couple inches to find cooler dirt ;)
Thanks for the idea though
Tim

[bleeth]

Tim: I would pass on a dirt floor since there are so many issues with everything from cleaning up to keeping tools and tables level, but, I hate concrete as it is such hell on the feet and legs. If you do a bit of a concrete ramp at the entrances or drop the wall footer and excavate down enough inside you can engineer support for a 3/4 T&G plywood floor or heavier T&G plank and not only run your dc and power for tools and equipment under it but also save much wear and tear on your body over the long haul. I know it raises the cost, but in the long haul you will be glad you did. The more advance planning you do the happier you will be. Since you, like me, are in the beautiful but humid and insect prone state of Florida a cypress plank floor would last forever and stay termite free.

[Tim Lucas]

Tim: I would pass on a dirt floor since there are so many issues with everything from cleaning up to keeping tools and tables level, but, I hate concrete as it is such hell on the feet and legs. If you do a bit of a concrete ramp at the entrances or drop the wall footer and excavate down enough inside you can engineer support for a 3/4 T&G plywood floor or heavier T&G plank and not only run your dc and power for tools and equipment under it but also save much wear and tear on your body over the long haul. I know it raises the cost, but in the long haul you will be glad you did. The more advance planning you do the happier you will be. Since you, like me, are in the beautiful but humid and insect prone state of Florida a cypress plank floor would last forever and stay termite free.

Yes I will have to see how much more cost it would add, right now I put cardboard on the concrete floor from the cabinet boxes and that helps a lot. And no, on the dirt floor :)

[chiloquinruss]

Scott, the pole barn has 8x8 vertical beams to hold up the structure. So I built 2x4 false walls to go between the beams and then covered everything with 1/2 in ply.

The wiring comes down from the rafters and goes behind the false wall. All of my wall outlets are installed at 48 inches off the floor.

In the picture those black mats on the floor are 1/2 inch thick rubber mats made for covering the floor in a horse barn to protect their hoofs. Most farm supply stores carry them.

All of my work spaces are as close to my ShopBot height as I could make them. I also have a large Harbor Freight cart that is almost as high. All of this matches the bed of my trailer. In a one man shop moving mdf sheets is almost impossible. I slide a lot of material! :D

The pvc on the walls is for the dust collector. Every tool is hooked up and has its own blast gate. I use the cheap ones from Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-dust-collector-air-flow-control-97497.html

I am in the process of adding pull down air and power. I hate cords on the floor. I wear bifocals and well . . . . Russ

[jTr]

I've been trying for a year to buy property with home and shop. Taking a swing at a a third one with high hopes it comes together this time...

Anyhow, all properties I've found have pole barns in need of some remodeling/reconfiguration to make my business function. Current target has partial floor- first 30 feet are poured, second half is not. Seriously considering a wood deck instead of full concrete. Have laid out a plan that would keep the 'bot and heaviest equipment on the pavement. Wood deck winds up in assembly/workbench and finish room end of the building. I'd like to hear from others if they've constructed decking vs concrete in a similar manner for similar reasons. As mentioned by others, long term human preservation is primary objective in going for a wood decking.

In the process, I've bought sample LED corn cob style bulbs and plan to sample some with high bay LED fixtures. A dizzying topic by itself, but things are looking very promising to get 300 watt equivalent low bay fixtures in the $100 USD range. Anyone have any good suggestions/ experience to share regarding lighting?

GREAT thread!

Jeff

[scottp55]

Thanks Russ,
Infilling makes the walls much more usable. Many people used that option in the steel buildings I built for 5 yrs.
Yep, cords/hose on the floor bring my wheelchair to a screeching halt, need to work on pull down.
Tim,
If you go stem wall for a wood floor, perimeter insul would keep dirt floor underneath very cool and simple fan arrangement would let you make use of it spring/fall for cooling without AC....still need dehumidifier though probably.
Do you have a prevailing wind direction? Maybe orient building windows and doors to get a cross draft?
Standing Seam roof is MUCH better for high winds and WAY less leakage and problems than standard rib roof sheeting.Can't remember a single callback for a SSRoof, and many callbacks on rib roof after a few years for leaks.

[Tim Lucas]

Thanks Russ,
Infilling makes the walls much more usable. Many people used that option in the steel buildings I built for 5 yrs.
Yep, cords/hose on the floor bring my wheelchair to a screeching halt, need to work on pull down.
Tim,
If you go stem wall for a wood floor, perimeter insul would keep dirt floor underneath very cool and simple fan arrangement would let you make use of it spring/fall for cooling without AC....still need dehumidifier though probably.
Do you have a prevailing wind direction? Maybe orient building windows and doors to get a cross draft?
Standing Seam roof is MUCH better for high winds and WAY less leakage and problems than standard rib roof sheeting.Can't remember a single callback for a SSRoof, and many callbacks on rib roof after a few years for leaks.

Think I will go concrete floor as It will give better resale value for when/if I retire- I will have to check on the SSRoof, using spray form insl should help hold roof together I think ?? Lots of trees so don't have steady wind but am looking at long side to east west as I am within 50 miles of the gulf to the west.
Thanks
Tim

[scottp55]

Tim,
I got injured while picking up rib roof that blew off during a downgraded late season hurricane, so I'm biased.
SSroof I'm talking about is with hidden clips and then hydraulically crimped together, so it's a unit and the clips usually have 3-5 screws directly into the steel purlin.
Rib roof usually have 3 screws in the lowest part of the sheet, and screws have neoprene/plastic gaskets which can split/degrade and that's where the water runs. At the meeting of the sheets they're held together by a thin strip of mastic and short "Stitch" screws, and may times guys don't change the clutch of their guns and so there are a bunch of "spinners"(stripped screws).
All my knowledge is from '84-90 so I'm dated. Urea/formaldehyde foam had just been banned before I started, and a cost effective replacement had not come out before I was a Para. So a definite "Maybe" on modern foam holding it together and preventing leaking:(
At least leaks were easy to find by the ballooning(bathtub sized sometimes) vinyl back fiberglass(we had to poke the vinyl to release the water(messy).
Probably 80% of the rib roofs were fine for the five years I worked them before I was injured on the Domtar job.
Best if you compare new stuff in your area;
https://www.google.com/search?num=20&site=&source=hp&q=standing+seam+vs+ribbed+metal+roof&oq=standing+seam+vs&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l10.2700.15855.0.20512.19.14.1.4.4.0. 561.2904.0j10j2j1j0j1.14.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..0.18 .2423.0..46j0i131j0i46j0i10.WRrTJkmBEWQ
I built my house with a 1.4" pitch, so went standing seam, and only have to worry about the yearly penetration checks for silicone degrading.
How thin is slab where you may be driving on it?
May consider adding stealth fiber to concrete depending on soil/water conditions and the type of fill under slab.
Hope any of this "Northern" stuff is helping.
Keep waiting for other people who have built in the South to chime in:(
scott

[Tim Lucas]

Tim,
I got injured while picking up rib roof that blew off during a downgraded late season hurricane, so I'm biased.
SSroof I'm talking about is with hidden clips and then hydraulically crimped together, so it's a unit and the clips usually have 3-5 screws directly into the steel purlin.
Rib roof usually have 3 screws in the lowest part of the sheet, and screws have neoprene/plastic gaskets which can split/degrade and that's where the water runs. At the meeting of the sheets they're held together by a thin strip of mastic and short "Stitch" screws, and may times guys don't change the clutch of their guns and so there are a bunch of "spinners"(stripped screws).
All my knowledge is from '84-90 so I'm dated. Urea/formaldehyde foam had just been banned before I started, and a cost effective replacement had not come out before I was a Para. So a definite "Maybe" on modern foam holding it together and preventing leaking:(
At least leaks were easy to find by the ballooning(bathtub sized sometimes) vinyl back fiberglass(we had to poke the vinyl to release the water(messy).
Probably 80% of the rib roofs were fine for the five years I worked them before I was injured on the Domtar job.
Best if you compare new stuff in your area;
https://www.google.com/search?num=20&site=&source=hp&q=standing+seam+vs+ribbed+metal+roof&oq=standing+seam+vs&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l10.2700.15855.0.20512.19.14.1.4.4.0. 561.2904.0j10j2j1j0j1.14.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..0.18 .2423.0..46j0i131j0i46j0i10.WRrTJkmBEWQ
I built my house with a 1.4" pitch, so went standing seam, and only have to worry about the yearly penetration checks for silicone degrading.
How thin is slab where you may be driving on it?
May consider adding stealth fiber to concrete depending on soil/water conditions and the type of fill under slab.
Hope any of this "Northern" stuff is helping.
Keep waiting for other people who have built in the South to chime in:(
scott

Dated:) - my soil is sand with sand mixed in, it drains fast and grows peanuts well. Don't like the vinyl insulation as critters like to live in it, another contractor I know just put up a 40 x 60 metal building and has 3" foam sprayed in just the roof- no radiant heat at all from roof - I understand the fasteners and all, now they use the stainless screws but I am sure after 5 - 6 years I will have to replace them but grandson will be old enough by then ;)

[guitarwes]

I live in southeast Ga and have a 24'x48' X 12' high walls pole barn structure with 24'x24' of it enclosed with a slab and the other half open with dirt floor for my tractor/boat/junk. I'm about to enclose the entire 24'x48' of it and put a 20' lean-to on the back of it the full 48' in length. I have rolled fiberglass insulation under the roof only (which helps alot with radiant heat) and plan on getting the walls sprayed with foam and A/C installed. I don't care if the A/C costs 5x as much as the whole building, that is a main priority and I'm gonna be cool when I'm working. These humid suffocating 110-115 degree heat index days are for the birds.
I have a 10' wide roll up door on the end of one long side of the building now and plan on putting a 12' wide roll up door on the end of the newly enclosed portion for loading/unloading sheet goods directly from the back of my truck or forklift to a rolling table inside the shop.

[Tim Lucas]

I live in southeast Ga and have a 24'x48' X 12' high walls pole barn structure with 24'x24' of it enclosed with a slab and the other half open with dirt floor for my tractor/boat/junk. I'm about to enclose the entire 24'x48' of it and put a 20' lean-to on the back of it the full 48' in length. I have rolled fiberglass insulation under the roof only (which helps alot with radiant heat) and plan on getting the walls sprayed with foam and A/C installed. I don't care if the A/C costs 5x as much as the whole building, that is a main priority and I'm gonna be cool when I'm working. These humid suffocating 110-115 degree heat index days are for the birds.
I have a 10' wide roll up door on the end of one long side of the building now and plan on putting a 12' wide roll up door on the end of the newly enclosed portion for loading/unloading sheet goods directly from the back of my truck or forklift to a rolling table inside the shop.

I agree!! now if only the would hook up the A/C in the new houses before I install there cabinets :confused:

[Tim Lucas]

28997
Poring slab Monday

[Keith Larrett]

Congrats Tim and good luck with the pour! How many square feet will the new shop be?

[steve_g]

Tim…
Wow, the slab is so big it makes you look small!

SG

[scottp55]

Congrats Tim....tell the kids to get their rollerblades ready for the new rink you built them:)
HOPING the rain holds off until power trowels are done, and surface "kicks".....HATE "raindrop" finished floors!
scott

[Tim Lucas]

29008
All went good! Slab complete and the rain stayed away, Thanks Scott!

Keith I will have a total of 5200 sq feet under roof, the main shop will be 3200 with a finish room of about 280 or 12' x 24' and a equipment room the same size for noisy stuff like vac hold and air compressor and dust collector and some storage. Then I left a space outside for my tractor and such.

Steve, I do look small in that picture don't I :-)

Oh, that's my grandson giving a final inspection of the fence chairs

[Ajcoholic]

29008
All went good! Slab complete and the rain stayed away, Thanks Scott!

Keith I will have a total of 5200 sq feet under roof, the main shop will be 3200 with a finish room of about 280 or 12' x 24' and a equipment room the same size for noisy stuff like vac hold and air compressor and dust collector and some storage. Then I left a space outside for my tractor and such.

Steve, I do look small in that picture don't I :-)

Oh, that's my grandson giving a final inspection of the fence chairs

Congrats Tim! Thats similar to what I have in size, it might seem like a lot but its easy to fill up, lol.. Its actually a really good size shop, between 5 and 6K sq feet.

I remember how big my shop looked before I bought in all the equipment, and benches, and carts etc.

[Tim Lucas]

New shop completed and all inspections done, now to find the time to move the machines in
3047630475

[scottp55]

Congrats Tim!!! :)
Can't wait to see your layout:)
scott

[Keith Larrett]

Looks great Tim! Congratulations and all the best to you.

[Tim Lucas]

Thank you both Scott and Keith, the input I received from this forum was such a big help in the planning and now the use of the new space.
I hope to become a Votech center for our local high school in the next year.

[dmidkiff]

Congrats, looks great. What a great contribution to help young people find a vocation.