Total Newbie Desktop Purchase Pending Question

[Walt_S]

Hi All. First post. After too many long hours of research, reading reviews, watching videos and talking to folks I'm pretty set on a desktop, but not 100%. I have an inkling I'm going to outgrow it, I just have no idea how fast, might be 6 months, might be 2 years, might be never. I know the saying "Buy your second machine first", but I don't have the 10K sitting around to buy the Max. I've taken up making small signs freehand now, as a hobby moreso, and that's what I plan to do mostly at first with it, but eventually would like to turn it into a business. I don't ever remember making anything larger than 18x24. I know I can go longer than 24 so that's not an issue, the 18 is what "might", at some point, become an issue. Just wondering for you small sign makers out there what your thoughts are? What sizes are common for you? Me it seems 6x18ish and 8x24ish are fairly common, along with smaller 4x12ish add ons. Thanks for any and all thoughts.

ETA - I also like the idea of the desktop being somewhat portable, whereas I can take it from my garage and put it into my RV when I go camping and maybe churn out a few signs while there. I have a toyhauler with a garage in the back which would be perfect for working in. The Max might be a little much for "portable".

[Steve Wonser]

I have a ShopBot Desktop and it is 24" in the X direction and 18" in the Y. You can tile jobs in the Y direction so the limit you mentioned is 24" not 18".

[scottp55]

As Steve said, the limiting factor will be 24", with the Max...you just won't have to Tile until you hit 36".
Had a friend buy a Max, and the first time he had to move it it wasn't hard to schedule a few friends to move it into a basement....not so easy scheduling the second time:)
He had to return it, but bought a Desktop for the portability factor.
Have you considered a "MakerCrate" from Shopbot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuh4rkmoaQw
It's what they use to ship and set up on for trade shows and Faires.
We bought 2 for the Desktops and they are Very Rugged!
With the casters and a power driver it was easy take to Fairs, and secure in shipping, and only several minutes to change over.
The wheelchair adaption TJ and Bill Young made for me in the vid is invaluable to me:)
scott
Oh, The "No Stack" sign was because the put the plexi "mini enclosure" on top of the Crate to ship.
We bought my Desktop sight unseen, and 3 months later bought the second one.
NO regrets:)

[Walt_S]

Thanks for the replies and the correction. I don't know why I thought it all went the other direction. Losing brian cells as I try to figure this all out. Now I'm not sure if that's better, worse, or indifferent. Trying to tell myself it's better, but have to think it all through again now.

The makercrate looks like a neat idea. I'll have to look into that more. Thanks!

Any other thoughts welcome. Giving myself the weekend to think it all over. Watched a few Desktop tiling videos and will watch some more and once I'm sure I comprehend it all with HOW and WHERE to put index points in all the materials I think will be the deciding factor. Eveyone makes it look and sound easy but I'm sure they've done it a hundred times.

Total unrelated question - how do you chamfer or otherwise do something decrotive on the outside edges when you need to have clamps holding the piece down? Or can you just not do that unless you have a vacuum table and have to stick to doing it by hand?

[scottp55]

Tiling doesn't Have to be reference doweled(although it's the most accurate way), It can be as simple as a pencil mark, and then just sliding the workpiece forward like on my shelf and the fences and wedges. For the spoilboard pic I did use reference dowels.
Have you watched TJ's "alternative hold downs";
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUm59_9Bks&feature=youtu.be
Clamps don't have to extend above the work surface.
The tendency is to use the Shopbot for everything, but for chamfers and roundovers it's easier and faster to simply use a lam trimmer or router table. I have a roundover chucked pretty much permanently in my laminate trimmer for either pre-radiusing finished Blanks, or putting the roundover on the backside and getting rid of the tab stubs in one step.
I had some of the same questions when I started and got a lot of help on this thread;
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?19057-Desktop-Jigging-Pics&highlight=desktop+jigging
Fancy borders are no problem to do even if you're screwing material down, you just do it before the cutout toolpath.
scott

[Walt_S]

Scott, thanks so much for the links and additional information! Very much appreciated. Lots of information to think about but also very helpful seeing and reading about so many different techniques.. I'm thinking for starters I won't need anything as elaborate as what some of you are doing, but maybe as I get into it I will. I've filed all the info away so when I get to the point of needing a super awesome spoilboard I'll know where to go. Is there a repository of spoilboard files somewhere or is it just a matter of finding someone who has made one and asking if they'd like to share it? Sorry for the delayed reply, had to go to a funeral this weekend which involved 2 days and 650 miles of driving.

[scottp55]

No problem Walt.
If it hadn't been for Bill Young posting his "Wedging Spoilboard" file in the "Desktop Jigging" thread and a few suggestions by Bob Dodd, I'd probably not have mine so useful:)
May want to start a folder, and every time you see a jig/spoilboard/clamp you like, tuck it in there as brain fodder.
You may also want to join the Vectric forum, as they are every bit as helpful as this forum, and you Will have questions about the software that comes with the machine.
Feel free to e-mail me(under contact info) for the 2 year old messy files. I wasn't very good at drawing back then:)
Probably 2 dozen people have the files and have modded them to suit their needs and particular machine.
Lots of info overload, but VCarve Pro is fairly intuitive, and Shopbot and forum have great support for specific needs and questions.
A Google search prefaced by "Shopbot Forum" or "Vectric Forum" usually yields a ton of results for any questions though.
I'd never drawn or had a CNC, and even I picked it up fairly fast.
It totally changes the way you think about stuff!
scott

[Walt_S]

Thanks again, Scott. I've started several folders relating to various things so far. Thanks for the suggestion.
I will be in touch about the file, thank you.
I've already played with the VCarve software and watched many tutorials. Not to bad since I already understand Photshop and other graphics software. To me that's the easy part. The learning curve is going to be setting up and running theShopbot.
Pretty much decided on the Desktop, now I have to decide how to configure it. $1200, give or take, is a pretty large factor at this point in time.

[scottp55]

Walt, I'd really suggest you call Shopbot Sales and ask if there's anybody with a Desktop near you on the "Demo" list.
If I was closer I'd invite you over, as not only do you get a real feel for what you're getting, but just a basic run through will save you weeks of nerve making initial cuts when a couple hours really gets rid of the jitters. A few people invited me to their shops, and I REALLY should have gone!
You'd actually be doing them a favor as well, as if they are a registered Demo site, then if you mention they Demo'd for you they get a check from Shopbot that buys quite a few bits:)
Even if there is only a full size or Buddy near you, it's still the same software and operating system, and always nice to meet another Shopbotter.
Just a thought,
scott
(Oh, 1hp spindle ain't even in the same ballpark as a 1.5hp router...actually it has more torque than my 3.25hp PC plunge router, and 16-26k rpm is a little on the high side for most applications, and at 16K you won't have much torque.....besides, a little router is a very useful tool in the shop, so you'd have to buy another anyways)
little voice..."spindle, spindle,spindle...." :)
2 cents

[Walt_S]

Scott, thanks for the demo idea. I will call and see if there's anybody around me.
I did call and talk to them about the spindle vs router option. I did get the model number of the router and looked it up. Seeing lots of good reviews but some of the newest ones are saying the beraings are going out after around 50 hours and parts are not available any longer to fix them. :( They did say they could ship me a DT without anything and I could try to mount my router, but I doubt that would work. So trying to figure where an extra $1200 is going to come from. Just got an unexpected emergecny room bill for close to $1000 on top of things. :(
I really appreciate all your advice and input and sugestions. Wish we were closer so I could buy you a drink.

[Fred Hermann]

Walt

I am a new user had my Shopbot desktop for less than 1 month. First I agree with others go the spindle option besides being more versatile it is a LOT quieter. Second it is possible to tile in both x and y axis. I did a little playing and the Vectric software allows you to draw in full 4' x 8' mode, I have not tried a bigger size. I played with 36" in the x direction. Make your drawing add a kerf allowance and make two parts and edge glue. Admittedly my drawing was very simple series of straight line vectors so the kerf allowance addition was easy but with a little work I think it could work on any drawing.

Fred

[ChrisCos]

As Steve said, the limiting factor will be 24", with the Max...you just won't have to Tile until you hit 36".

I spoke with the folks are ShopBot and the Max has the same limiting factor as the desktop, 24". The Desktop and the Max are the same "width", the Max is longer. But where the desktop is 18" long, the Max is 36" long.

The shopbot folks did say they way they presented the numbers for the two version could by confusing, since they just list the larger number first, regardless if it is the X or the Y access.

Just a heads up for anyone looking at the Max and thinking that the gantry has more room between the support than the desktop does. They are both 24".

[carolinasmith]

Ordered the Maker Crate with my D-MAX, and it looked way cool, but 3 sides were really damaged, so will be getting 3 replacement sides... Till then, my CNC is 4 inches off the floor. Still it is exciting...

[scottp55]

That's a shame it got damaged in shipping,BUT now you've got some matching 1/2"ply to play with for possible shelves or such:)

[carolinasmith]

Yup, I discard very little. I even plan to make fire starters (sawdust plus paraffin wax) when I gather pure wood (non MDF, no plywood) sawdust :)

[scottp55]

When you get paraffin melted, take a Small piece of finish sanded wood (600G and a little figure in wood) in until it's heat soaked, and then wipe off all excess, and buff it off.:)
Also maybe take a small Ball jar and warm food grade mineral oil/paraffin 80/20 until melted, then stir as it cools....food safe "Wood Butter":)