Exotic woods, continued

[jTr]

Rather than continue on the 12x6 Padauk thread, thought it best to start fresh here. Just would like some clarification on Rosewood.

Question: Is it normal to see this deep purple hue as in the board on the lower left? Client has a rack filled with this stuff, and is in the condition seen in upper portion of image. The two lower boards I planed upon arriving back at shop. While the lower right one appears "right" for rosewood, that left one has the same grain patterns, but is an incredibly deep violet, like purple heart. Just looking for a consensus whether the purple is still possibly a variation of rosewood, or more likely purple heart?

Thanks,

Jeff

[genek]

I think it is purple heart. also the board on the right, not sure if it is Rose wood. looks more like cherry

[cnc_works]

I have some rosewood in that shade and, though wood grain varies in general, purple heart is generally more straight grained. Board on the right has some resemblance to tulipwood. Weight and grain would help to determine species.

[jTr]

More images. Thought I'd plane a few more, and it's quite evident it's a mix of color. Short board on lower left is a scrap of purple heart I had on hand. Studying the two in the middle, it looks like the one on the right transitions from the orange red tones to a full purple like the one next to it... Hope more boards and grain patterns together may help you guys make a more confident guess of what it is.

I realize it is no way to identify wood, just wondering if rosewood can go this purple from those of you with more experience with this species.

Thanks!

Jeff

[knight_toolworks]

here is the way to do it http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-brazilian-rosewood-from-east-indian-and-other-rosewoods/
it looks good looks a lot like the Brazilian rosewood of so it is very valuable.

[jTr]

Steve,
Thanks for the link. As I apply all of his described tests, it appears it is truly Brazilian Rosewood. It just appears some of it has a deep purple hue, while another piece next to it has almost identical grain, yet is the more recognizable reddish hue. Turn the board again, and you can see it has purple leaning hues at the edges.

Most significant indicators: super tight, almost pore - free grain. This stuff is incredibly dense. It is as heavy and dense as any ipe wood I've worked with.
Strangest indicator: Smell. After cutting the end grain to examine pore density, it was distinctly smelling like a rose, which they said was one of the simplest and significant indicators.

As for the source, I know this guy personally went to central America over a decade ago with a salvage permit after a hurricane and brought literally a warehouse full of mahogany and countless pallets full of this rosewood, so I trust it is what he claims it to be. However, you still need verification, especially when an unexpected color turns up. This will be a once in a lifetime treat to build something with these exotics....:D

[knight_toolworks]

the dust is truly nasty from it. Someone gave me some railroad tie made from it. great looking stuff but unless you have a use for it selling it may be the way to go if you can get a good deal.

[jTr]

Steve,
Thanks for the warning. I've dealt with ipe', which is completely absurd. Hope it's not that bad...
I really don't have to mill much, as these pieces will be trim accents and hand made door/drawer pull material. Bulk of the case work will be big, beautiful slabs of Central American mahogany!

Jeff

[knight_toolworks]

it may be worth over 100 a bf maybe twice that. so if you sell it and find something close you can really do well.

[mzettl]

If this is true Brazilian rosewood, Dalbergia nigra, it is illegal to import into the United States. It has been illegal since the mid 90's. If you are trying to sell it, you need to have documentation that it was purchased before that time. It is a CITIES 1 classified species, which means it is the most highly restricted. According to the strict interpretation of the laws, it cannot even cross international borders as a manufactured item. As far as identifying it, the smell of freshly cut Brazilian rosewood is unmistakable. Once you smell it, you will never forget it, and other Dalbergia species do not have the same smell.

Hope this is helpful.

Matt

[scottp55]

It sounds like Jeff is just getting a chance to work with the owners stash which predates the regulations(like a Very small stash I picked up in early 90's).
Lucky man Jeff:)
If I remember right from '95, it machines wonderfully with sharp standard power tools, and for the small bits of hand planing and chiseling and pullsaws we did...if you could shave with the edge, and lightly touched up the edge frequently with strop set on a Flat surface, then it was a dream to work with:)
Got 1 more piece to make with my last piece of "scrap"...a freeform hanger for a small Japanese Temple Bell given to Dad by Dr Hiyashi in the 60's.
If you cut anything on the 'Bot Jeff, make sure to post details:)
scott

[scottp55]

Darn, took too long to take pics, and the morning sun doesn't really show the purple overtones well:(
Have fun Jeff! :)
scott
Oh, if you ever pick up a Tibetan "Singing Bowl", East Indian Rosewood was the wood of choice for the "Mallet" way back, but I made mine out of Brazilian. Because of the density and micro crystalline silica, when run around the rim it's perfect:)

[jTr]

Scott,
Thanks for input- I misspoke earlier when stating there would be "handmade" pulls. Shopbot- made is more accurate- kind of wish you were closer to help coach me through the fine art of diminutive cnc work, which you clearly are a master of. I'll shout out if I need some help, and yes, I'll hopefully end up with something worth posting here for images.

Jeff

[waynelocke]

To reply to the previous posts on CITES and personal stash, I don't think that it matters if it is a personal stash or whatever that was imported before the ban, you have to be able to document it. They don't take your word for it.

[scottp55]

Thanks Wayne...lucky I kept all the receipts from building the house:)
I remember when they grabbed Martin Guitars stock.
Jeff, Mostly handwork on this last piece, but was thinking of adding Kanji and/or stone inlay, and need some machining to hang from Cherry picture rail that runs the whole house.
I'm thinking it will cut like Bloodwood.
You'll probably get to it before me, the way I go(and stuff I've promised).
You've got quite the selection to choose from:)
scott

[genek]

I just ordered some Brazilian rose wood. Here is what is listed on the wood definition. I ordered it from cook woods. Genuine Dalbergia nigra, Brazilian Rosewood is the standard by which the World’s true rosewoods are measured! Colors range from orange, brown, & black, to brick red. Tonally superior to all except Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylonin), this wood is typically utilized for instruments. Brazilian Rosewood takes an extremely high polish with a lustrous, smooth natural polish! Ships to USA only - no exceptions! These pen blanks are 8-1/4" in length.
If this is true Brazilian rosewood, Dalbergia nigra, it is illegal to import into the United States. It has been illegal since the mid 90's. If you are trying to sell it, you need to have documentation that it was purchased before that time. It is a CITIES 1 classified species, which means it is the most highly restricted. According to the strict interpretation of the laws, it cannot even cross international borders as a manufactured item. As far as identifying it, the smell of freshly cut Brazilian rosewood is unmistakable. Once you smell it, you will never forget it, and other Dalbergia species do not have the same smell.

Hope this is helpful.

Matt

[mzettl]

That's pretty interesting. Cook's website says that the stock comes from reclaimed stumps that were cut in the '60's and '70's. I wonder how this is controlled by the Brazilian government. In India, it is my understanding that all of the East Indian Rosewood is very carefully and diligently regulated by the government. Only trees downed by natural causes, or being removed for approved development projects can be sold. This is the first that I have heard about Brazilian rosewood being available for legal sale since the 90's. Thanks for the information.

Matt


I just ordered some Brazilian rose wood. Here is what is listed on the wood definition. I ordered it from cook woods. Genuine Dalbergia nigra, Brazilian Rosewood is the standard by which the World’s true rosewoods are measured! Colors range from orange, brown, & black, to brick red. Tonally superior to all except Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylonin), this wood is typically utilized for instruments. Brazilian Rosewood takes an extremely high polish with a lustrous, smooth natural polish! Ships to USA only - no exceptions! These pen blanks are 8-1/4" in length.

[cr2]

All the hues in your picture are typical of Honduras rosewood.

[jTr]

cr2,
After some testing, I've concluded that it really does have that range of tones, and you've just confirmed. Thank you!

Jeff