Ready for Blasting

[joe]

One of the major reasons sandblasted sign sales have flagged in the past ten years is the lack of availability of clear heart redwood. One of the options was clear cedar but that too isn't all that as easy of cheap to come by. I've used lots of cedar and love it but it's nothing like redwood. So why is there still interest. We can't rule out longevity. I have signs still doing well after thirty years. There are few materials that last that long. For example, the sign panel below is a replacement due to an auto accident. A major requirement is to duplicate the look look of the existing signage. However that's only a curious event. Most of my sandblasted signs come from the desire to have the natural wood grain look.

Today, with a router, we're able to get the desired depth without the difficult, labor intensive, blasting process. I'm showing here the use of common PVC as a sandblast resist. It's held in place with staples or 3m double stick foam tape.

I'll post a little more as we proceed

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30188&stc=1

[joe]

Update:

After using a staple gun on the PVC this one went off to the local monument company for blasting. What a relief! One reason I recommend sending this kind of work out is the cost savings. The invoice for this part of the job was $40.00

Here I'm putting down a coat of shellac. After the paint is applied I'll be doming the letters over with a little epoxy. Then the gilding. I'll take a few more pix as I go along.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30282&stc=1

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30283&stc=1

[khaos]

That is a great price point for the results. It is subtle but what a nice look. Close to me on the outerbanks of North Carolina the sand worn look is desired as well but much deeper. As you have said in the past its good to know your customer and giv'em what they want. I did not make it but here is a representative sign from the coastal NC area.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30284&stc=1

Thanks for sharing Joe.

[joe]

Todays lumber:

Joe Thanks for the pix.
Everyone with a CNC has a marked advantage over sign shops with out one. On these kinds of sign the ability to get the depth without relying on the blasting technique is a pure bonus. Some boards may blasts qiclly while others are hard as concrete. I've seen it happen on a single panel. I've even had to mask some parts of the sign for even results. But with the CNC the blasting time is short and even. In the photo above you will notice what we call as "Punch Blasting". It's where you end up with divits. Thats where the blast nozzel is held too close to the wood and an insufficient lack of air.A good blasting situation is where the nozel about 6" away from the substrate. But it takes lots of CFM and not too much PSI. Psi will generally cause heat and that tends to remove the sb mask. PSI should be no higher than 80.

There's always a good market for a beautiful wood sign.

[Pennywood]

That's beautiful work, as always, Joe. Clear straight grained wood like that is rare

[joe]

Vertical Grain often is uniform but I've been working with wood that has more character. That's possible with a CNC since blasting is easier. I'm not as excited today, with strait grain, but it will stay together better than boards with lots of character.

Vertical grain redwood is available from many California Redwood supply companies. It's pricy though. I'm pricing redwood signs by the square foot. That's $180 per. When calculating you should figure the outside dimensions. For example this one has a large bump-out on top. So the outside dimension comes to 15 square ft. Then there is the 23K gold. That adds another $500.00. Rounding out to $3,800. with posts.

[rb99]

That seems cheap...

[joe]

OK rb99, what would you charge?

I'm ready to learn. What kind of product do you make and how do you figure your fees? I'm sure everyone would like to see some of your work.

[rb99]

OK rb99, what would you charge?

I'm ready to learn. What kind of product do you make and how do you figure your fees? I'm sure everyone would like to see some of your work.
Not sure, just seems like a lot of work and a great finished piece for that amount.

[joe]

I understand!

The subject of pricing hasn't been discussed much and it seems like a good time to open up a thread. This is a topic newbees might feel helpful.

As a commercial shop I'm doing less and less manual labor. For example my routing is jobbed out. This leaves time for me to do what I'm best at and the work I most enjoy. Installations are also done by others. If I could I'd job out everything except the concepts and design along with the finishing. I revel in the final steps.

So, I'll attempt to go over the topic of "Pricing" in a new thread. Yes I know we have few sign artists aboard.

[steve_g]

Joe…

Pricing is a subject of universal interest! I know your examples will specifically apply to sign makers, but everyone can learn from you…
I personally look forward to the thread!

Wasn’t it Ted Hall who said something like “everyone with a ShopBot eventually is a sign maker”?

SG

[guitarwes]

Would love to see a "pricing" thread started. Seems most don't want to talk about it, I guess thinking other people will rebuke them for charging too much......or not charging enough. But it is what it is. You charge what you need to charge, and mostly it's like comparing apples to oranges because of the so many different variable for sign makers scattered all over the country (shop size, number of employees, supplies cost, region, competition, etc). A $1500 sign in one area of the country might be a $2500 sign in a totally different region/demographic.

[steve_g]

I once took a “business” course mandated by our city for licensed contractors… The number one thing I took away from that class was that most new businesses fail within 3 years. My competition were people who didn’t know what the true costs of doing business was and were pricing themselves into failure! I don’t expect a pricing thread to say “this much / Sq Ft” is the proper charge but help novices and even old hands understand what goes into pricing a job!

SG

[joe]

My Choice background for gilding is the epoxy doming. It's the fastest way to get a glass smooth surface.

Here's the steps.
I use Precision Board epoxy because it takes a long time to set. But even in the summer you may need to put it in an ice water bath to keep it from setting. This is a 50-50 mix that I add the drip or two of yellow One Shot. After a good 2 minute mix I get out the little Dixie cups. I pour the solution down the middle of each letter and with a chop-stick encourage it to move over to the sides. Capillary action will keep the solution where it belongs.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30321&stc=1

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30322&stc=1

After each letter has been completed it's a good measure to use a propane torch to encourage small bubbles to come to the surface and go away. It only takes a flash second with the flame.

If I didn't know little trick like this the whole process would be too expensive. Sometimes I think all I do are little tricks. With them it's all so easy.

[guitarwes]

Looks great. So how/when do you clean up the drips?

[joe]

I'm so glad you asked.

With a #3, little hog hair brush, you can pick up most any drip in one swipe. Be sure to clean the brush in Lacquer thinner Here's an example of the way I do the pour. To get the glaze over to the edge I use a chop-stick. Simply draw a line to the edge and the liquid will follow.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30323&stc=1