Help! New Bot keeps crashing

[scottbot]

Hi,
I sure could use some help from the experts out there. Sorry this is so long. There's a lot to tell.
I have a PRSalpha with a 4HP HSD spindle. It's brand new and I haven't even cut any wood yet. I've been practicing on styrofoam but even that has become a problem because the Bot keeps crashing.

It's been going on for about a month now. I'm at the point now where I am going to have to turn down paying jobs because the machine won't complete a job.
I'll try to describe the problem as best as I can but it will be difficult because it doesn't always do the same thing. Here goes...

The first time I turned it on I got an error message about a switch that is normally closed should be set to normally open ands to use the VN command to change the setting. Well I'd never run a ShopBot before and didn't have a clue what it meant so I did what it said and everything seemed to work ok. For a while at least.

Turns out it was referring to the E-Stops both of which are normally closed switches. Except the Control Software wanted them set to normally open. That's the only way it would work. But it started to crash.
Sometimes it would stop in the middle of a cut. The Spindle would stop turning the x,y&z stopped moving and the frequency drive shut down. When I attempted to re-start the frequency drive the contacts would make a lot of racket but it just wouldn't re-start. If I shut it down for about an hour it would re-start then.

Other times it would it would pull up in the middle of a job and move to 0,0. A dialog box wold show up on the screen giving me the option to resume. When I clicked resume I could re-start the spindle and it would go back to the job and finish it without any more problems.

Sometimes it stops and I get a 'Hit Stop Error' message on the screen. This has happened when I was on the other side of the room nowhere near the stop buttons.

During one conversation with ShopBot support it came to light that I have an Indexer but didn't have it connected to the ShopBot. This could be causing a problem because the driver was installed and the Bot was looking for the Indexer but couldn't find it. So I disconnected the ribbon cable for the Indexer driver from the Control Board. Magic! It worked flawlessly. For about one day.

Then it started to crash again. Clever me. This time I disconnected the power for the Indexer Driver. I can't even remember if that made a difference. I checked the Control Software to make sure it was only looking for 3 axis. It was.

Although I had most other programs shut off on the computer, after another call to support I made sure that the Screen Saver, Automatic Updates and the Anti Virus software were turned off.

Still it crashes.

Support has suggested that perhaps one of the E-stops isn't functioning properly. They haven't offered to replace it/them though.

Oh yeah. In the early days of the rolling crashes I double checked the wiring for the E-Stops at the control board. It was correct. After a few more crashes I took the covers off the E-Stops and checked their wiring and checked to see if the switches were functioning properly. All appeared to be ok.

I hadn't run the Bot for a few days because I've been putting the seal coat on the vacuum plenum. So tonight I thought I would cut some styrofoam using a file for my first paying job. Nothing terribly fancy, just a 4" square 3/8" deep in styrofoam with my customer's logo cut in reverse. He's going to cast drink coasters as promotional give aways. I'm supposed to do a nested grid of 16 of them. I couldn't even get one of them cut. It just keeps crashing.

Weird thing going on with the Input Switch setting in the software now too. It will run for a while at the correct setting of normally closed. Then the indicator light for input 4 on the ShopBot Position screen will flash red and I have to go in and change it to normally open. It seems to like that. Then after a while the light flashes and it wants to be set back to normally closed.

I'm stumped. And really frustrated. I've tried everything that support has suggested and have been patiently working with them to resolve this problem. They've been trying.
A difficult one to troubleshoot to be sure but after a month of buggering around with it all I've got is an expensive boat anchor and paying jobs that I'm going to have to turn away.

I suspect it is a hardware issue but if anyone has any suggestions I would be most grateful for the help.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

[myxpykalix]

Do you have the machine and the spindle properly grounded? I had similar problems in that it would stop mid file, lose position and crash. It was inconsistent and might happen 3 times in one file, then maybe not crash for a while. It turned out to be static electricity shorting it out. I hope it turns out to be something simple like that.

[Gary Campbell]

Scott...
We also experienced many of the same problems with our PRSa/HSD4hp. Grounding solved 95% of the problems, once that was complete tech support was able to solve the rest.
Look Here: http://shopbotwiki.com/index.php?title=Grounding_your_ShopBot
Gary

[zeykr]

Sure sounds like a problem with estop since indicator 4 lights up. Dangerous to run without an e-stop for long, but for one test run in an air cut, what about removing the e-stop switch cables from their position in control box and just making a short wire jumper on the control board to close the circuit and see what happens.

When we first set up a PRS Alpha at a friends shop we had proximity switch problems which sound similar to what you're having in the frequency and manner in which they happened. There were 3 solutions, 1) we had wired the prox switches as shown in the manual sent with the machine, but there was a new wiring setup in the downloadable manual on the shopbot site. This fix reduced the freq of the stops quite a bit.
2) turned out one prox switch was bad - if you wiggled cable right at prox sensor it would blink off and on - replacement fixed 99% of the remaining problems with random stops. 3) final fix was to run new grounding to tie machine, dustcollector, and wire in dust shoe tubing to a good ground.

[scottbot]

Thank you all for replying.

I have a ground installed on the machine but I will make double sure that the connection is good.

Ken,
I'm pretty sure that I have to prox switches wired correctly but I'll check for updates and see if I've done it the same way.

Thanks again guys. I hope I can get this thing going...

Scott

[Gary Campbell]

Scott...
I also had "A" ground to my machine. Look over the article. Like Ken says.. make sure the switches are wired as per the file posted on the SB tech site. We also had a prox switch problem, but until you get repeatable results, tech support's job is almost impossible.
Gary

[scottbot]

Gary,
I have printed your excellent article and will be implementing it today.

Ken,
My prox switches are wired as per the tech article. Thanks for the tip.

I agree that without repeatable errors that tech support's job is next to impossible.

Hopefully today's suggestions will eliminate the problem.

Frank from tech support has also emailed me and ask that I send him a picture of the connection at the control board. I've done that so we'll see what we can come up with.

Thanks again everybody for your help. Even though I'm not having a great time with the Bot right now it sure is good to have the support of the experienced users via the forum and also ShopBot Tech Support.

Scott

[scottbot]

Hi All,
Here is an update.

I printed out Gary's article on grounding the ShopBot and applied the suggestions to my machine.

I grounded each x extrusion.
I grounded the y extrusion.
I grounded the z extrusion.
I grounded the control box chassis.
I already had a ground wire running through the inside of the dust collection hose but I added one to the outside of the hose too.
These were all grounded to the main ground in my power panel.

Now I don't know it it means anything but my shop panel is a sub panel that comes from my house. It's ground is connected to the house ground.
At this point I'm thinking it might be a good idea to put a ground rod in at the shop and connect it to the shop's power panel.

So then it was time for the test.
I started up the Bot and did the warm up routine.
Then I started to cut job which was a 4" square in rigid styrofoam.

When the job was only 4% complete I got a "Limit Switch Hit!" error. No limit switches (prox switches) were hit. The proximity switch lights were on.
The spindle was still turning but the Bot was standing still. Input 4 was flashing red and inputs 2 & 3 had red x's through them.

I clicked on the Resume button in the dialog box and the frequency drive shut down. Now the dialog box said "ShopBot PAUSED in Movement or file Action"
Clicking the resume button causes the dialog box to close and then re-open in about 1 second.
I am unable to restart the frequency drive with the reset button.

I turn off the control box and wait for about 15 seconds. When I turn it back on the frequency drive display lights up with the frequency then it changes to Uu1 and shuts itself down.

I couldn't get anything to work at this point so I closed the ShopBot software and shut the Bot down.
I turned things off and on for a while with no success. At some point I noticed that input 4 was still flashing red but the red x's were gone from inputs 2 & 3. When I push the reset button on the control box, instead of getting the one click when the contacts make up I get 3 or 4 rapid clicks and the frequency drive shuts down.

In the past when this sort of thing happened I could leave it for an hour or so and come back and everything would start up and run for a while at least.
This time I left it for a couple hours but when I tried to start it I got the rapid clicks from the contacts.
It appears to be 'dead in the water'.

Once again I'm at a loss and asking for your help.

Thanks

Scott

[myxpykalix]

I'm no expert but it sounds to me more like you have a wiring issue incorrect. It won't be the first time the wiring diagram or picture was wrong.

Have you tried running a file just aircutting with no power to the spindle? Try shutting power off to the spindle at the panel to try to eliminate any type of interference(?) from the spindle and run a file.

I don't have the types of problems you are having however on occassion I get errors where i can't get the bot to reset and just shutting the control box doesn't fix it.
I (think) that there is a chip in the box that holds info like settings, position, ect and if you go shut the power off at the circuit breaker box it will delete those memorized settings and reset itself. But you will lose any settings also.
But none of this fixes your problem. You might have to unconnect your prox switch wires pull them out and inspect them to make sure you don't have a short in those wires somewhere hidden from view.
Do like Ken suggests and disconnect your prox switch at the box and try it then, if it works then you have at least isolated where the problem is, THEN maybe pull the cables and inspect for shorts.
Also check the USB cable coming from the bot to your computer. People stepping on that cord might damage it and be causing the problem.

[sawdust535]

Scott
I had a problem with my files crashing at different lines in the same file and would get the 'Hit Stop Error' message. Tech support gave me some possible reasons for the problem including a grounding issue. After repeatedly checking and testing everything, it turned out to be a grounding issue. A simple relocation of a grounding wire from my table leg to my dust collector base solved it (after numerous trial and error locations). Strangely, another ground wire from the same location on my table leg to different area of my dust collector didn't work, even though a continuity tester showed both areas were in continuity with each other.
As an example of how sensitive grounding and electrical noise can be, my system has been running without any further crashes or error messages until one day I used my digital camera with an electronic flash to photograph a job while it was being machined. The instant the flash fired, I got the 'Hit Stop Error' message and the job crashed. I had to reboot the PC to get the job to run again. (Just wondering if this ever happened to anyone before with an electronic flash?)

[scottbot]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I'll try them tonight.
I also have a few suggestions from Support to try.

Here's hoping...


I'll keep you posted.

Scott

[scottbot]

Hi,
Here's an update.
I won't bore you with the tedious details just the results.

On Monday night I jumpered both E-Stops and ran some air cuts. They both worked so I ran the same file in some Styrofoam. Success!

Encouraged, I made a simple file in PartWorks and ran that. Success again.

So its the E-Stops that have been the root of the problem. I just have to figure out what to do to fix the situation. Support has been very helpful, we just haven't found the fix yet.

I've already done a continuity test on them and last night re-routed the wires for the E-Stops.
That didn't work so the E-Stops are still jumpered.

The troubleshooting continues...