I need help troubleshooting an intermittent glitch in a PartWorks 3D file?

[tim_mcknight]

I used PartWorks 3D to draw this file and have an intermittent glitch. I don't know if the problem is in the PartWorks 3D file or in my ShopBot Buddy machine?

It is relatively simple file to put a 16" radius on the surface of a guitar fret board but at line 473 the file will freeze. Just before the file freezes, it will travel past X axis home position and hit the X axis end stop limit switch.

Just prior to the line 473 freeze happening the Z will plunge deeper into the surface and ruin the work piece.

What is frustrating is this doesn't happen consistently. I can usually cut the first part just fine. When I load the 2nd or 3rd part it will happen. I have tried moving the home / start position slightly on the 2nd and 3rd parts and sometimes this works and sometimes not.

This only happens on this file which leads me to believe there is some conflict within the file and not in my machine. It always freezes in about the same place on the work piece.

The plunge happens in about the middle of the fret 20" long fretboard shown below:
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30911&stc=1


Here is a close up what happens when the Z plunges into the surface of the work piece. After the Z plunges it continues on the same linear path until it hits the table end stop limit:
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30912&stc=1


I think I've attached the file to this post? Any ideas on how to correct this intermittent problem would certainly be appreciated because I don't have much hair left to pull out!

[Martin Reid]

Dear Tim

As you will have, I've looked at the part file and confirm there is nothing untoward included in there. It strikes me that there is some stuff missing though.

Error preping, Header, Footer, Switch-on, Switch-off.
What post processor are you using?

Some have found that erratic, unpredictable behaviour is down to usb issues.. You could check the following threads.

Buddy Errors
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?23998-Error-message-on-my-Buddy-Alpha&highlight=problems

More Buddy Com Port Problems
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?24077-Com-port-problems-again&highlight=problems

Anyway that's my two penn'orth.
Sincerely and in good faith
Martin

P.S. On a different note, I think that radius groove could be done with a bullnose cutter fluting toolpath.

[steve_g]

Tim…
I’ve had similar behavior when running the file from a jump drive…
SG

[Brady Watson]

This only happens on this file which leads me to believe there is some conflict within the file and not in my machine. It always freezes in about the same place on the work piece.



It's just a bad habit causing this. Running a file off the USB thumb drive (and network) is a no-no. ALWAYS transfer your part files to the C drive. C:/SBParts exists for this reason.

After you've transferred your files to the hard drive, ALWAYS go down to the tray (by the clock) and EJECT that drive from Windows.

If you just pull out the TD without ejecting it will give you those messages asking you if you want to repair the drive when you plug it into another machine. You can also lose communication with the Bot for no reason because it wasn't ejected. Restarting the computer/Windows will refresh the USB state.

-B

[tim_mcknight]

I am not running this file from a TD. It resides on my C hard drive and that is where I run it from.

[srwtlc]

What version of SB3 (3.8.XX) are you running? Some of the older versions exhibited this behavior with 3D and V-carve files. If you aren't running the latest (3.8.42), try that. Also, try changing the Z axis feedrate. You have 0.3, try 1.0. Older 3.8 versions had issues with certain combinations of XYZ feedrates. I had all sorts of problems with MS,2,1. Go figure.

[Martin Reid]

Dear Tim

I can image that you are getting quite frustrated by now.

If you're using your machine all the time(?) and this 'glitch' only happens with this file / operation(?) and not every time at that(?) and it happens around the same position in the file (tick).

Given there is nothing wrong with the file (tick) but maybe try a different postprocessor and compare that(?).

What else is happening at that time(?).

When I re-read your post..

"but at line 473 the file will freeze. Just before the file freezes, it will travel past X axis home position and hit the X axis end stop limit switch"

(1) Does this mean the file freezes/stops but the x axis keeps travelling until it hits the limit switch(?). What if anything is displayed on the console(?).

(2) or Does it mean that the file is still processing but the machine stops following the commands and heads for the x axis. Look like 'lost comms' but why only crash on X and not Y or Z? - make sure there are no background processes - (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?3076-Intermittently-losing-the-controller&highlight=background+process)

If it was happening here I would want to modify the file into a loop, set everything up then take out the cutter and remove the work piece and run the file and while its looping round and round I'd want to check.

All the cable connections and groundings (pull, push, move, wipe, twist etc)
Feel the temperature of the motors
Feel how free the head and table are moving

Anyway I'm watching with interest to see if you can get it sorted.
Sincerely and in good faith
Martin

[Gary Campbell]

These types of issues are seldom due to problematic files. They will usually be repeatable as to time or location.

Time as to when the system has to respool a cache of code or time when something in the computer is switched off or on.

Location as to where there could be a physical bind, or when the dust hose comes in contact with the machine

[tim_mcknight]

I am going to admit my ignorance and say I don't know what a post processor is or how to try a different one. I don't have my PC connected to the internet and nothing else is running in the back ground. I am running a very basic PC and only have software loaded on it to support running my ShopBot.

If you look at the second picture you can see that the 1/4" round nose bit has been cutting the surface just fine and its about 3/4 of the way done cutting the surface. If you look closely at the 12th fret you can see where the Z axis just plunged deeper into the wood. The Bot does not freeze or stop cutting there. It continues on in the same X axis direction (while plunged too deep) and continues past the point where it normally reverses direction and then runs into the X axis limit switch. Its at this point that all movement stops and line 473 is displayed on the monitor screen.

Another small pop up window appears on the screen and gives me a few choices of what I can do next. I can't remember all the options exactly but I can QUIT, RESUME or (two other options)??? I have chosen RESUME before and it reverses X direction and continues to cut BUT at the deeper depth.

My Sb3 version is 3.5.8. I just tried to download version 3.8.42 and got this error message:

C:programFiles\ShopBot\ShopBot3\Sb3.exe
An error occurred while trying to replace the exiting file:
DeleteFile Failed; Code 5.
Access is denied.

Below the error message it gave me the following options:
Click to RETRY again, IGNORE to skip file (not recommended), or ABORT to cancel installation.

I clicked RETRY and got the same error message so I X'd out of that window.

Next I tried to download the next older version Sb3.6.46 and got the very same message with the same result when I clicked RETRY.

I looked inside my ShopBot computer box and my controller card says: V201A. There is a tag on the outside of my computer box that has PRS-S followed by 10 numbers which I assume is the serial number? When I open my SB3 software it tells me that my "Control Box Firmware Version = 162".

So I am back to square one scratching my head.

[tim_mcknight]

These types of issues are seldom due to problematic files. They will usually be repeatable as to time or location.

Time as to when the system has to respool a cache of code or time when something in the computer is switched off or on.

Location as to where there could be a physical bind, or when the dust hose comes in contact with the machine

I don't touch the computer while the machine is running. If something is switching on and off internally then I have no knowledge of it.
My dust extraction hose is not connected either. I removed it so I can see what is happening.

The vertical down plunge failure always happens at the same place in the fingerboard around the 12th fret location. I've tried moving the work piece to different locations on my table. Sometimes it will cut just fine and other times it fails. Therefore, I don't think its a location problem on the table or in the movement of the table. If it always plunges downward around the 12th fret location wouldn't that be a clue that its in the program file? But if that's the case why wouldn't it happen every time I cut a fingerboard? This is driving me bonkers.

I can cut other files and I NEVER get this same failure. I've cut lots of other files with no issues. Its always (intermittent failures) in the fingerboard file.

[tim_mcknight]

I see my 100th post went from MEMBER to SENIOR MEMBER. Perhaps this is just another one of my reoccurring "Senior Moments"? :o

[jerry_stanek]

I just went out and ran your file doing an air cut and it ran all the way through.

[tim_mcknight]

I just went out and ran your file doing an air cut and it ran all the way through.
How many times did you run it Jerry? It usually runs fine the first time and then on 2nd or 3rd run it glitches.

[jerry_stanek]

How many times did you run it Jerry? It usually runs fine the first time and then on 2nd or 3rd run it glitches.

I just ran it once tomorrow I will try it a again 3 or 4 times.

[Brady Watson]

OK - Sounds to me like there might be a few things going on.

First, the control software is old - but that is not to say it isn't any good or that it is a problem. It sounds to me like you could be missing a few critical OS updates for the installation to puke out like that. Let's assume the control software isn't the issue. If & when you DO update the control software, be sure to install the firmware for the controller card. It has to match the same version as the front end/interface of SB3. If not it will either not connect or run unreliably.

The installation problem could be an issue with your User Account Control on the PC itself. If this thing isn't even connected to the web, goto the control panel and drag the UAC slider all the way to the bottom, OFF. This will prevent those annoying nanny popups ala Vista.

Take a VERY close look at your power settings. Make sure you set the power scheme up for high performance so that it turns the monitor off NEVER and hard drives off NEVER. Otherwise the machine WILL stop when the tool goes into power save mode. This is what occurred to me when you said it stopped at the same place in the file multiple times. Also turn off your screensaver etc.

The other thing, which is a sneaky little bugger of a setting in XP+, is USB Selective Suspend. Under Advanced Power Options in the control panel...Disable it. This will stop the computer from shutting down power to your USB ports, essentially disabling them for power savings & disconnecting the Bot.

Also just to eliminate any snafus...Make sure the login your have for the PC has Administrator credentials. Sometimes things don't work as expected because of some security level setting.

I doubt the issue is with the file itself.

-B

[tim_mcknight]

Brady,
I'm on the way to the shop now to check all of the settings that you mentioned. You might be on to something because my monitor does go black after a while so the power savings mode could be the issue? I'll also call ShopBot to see why I can't download the newer operating system. Perhaps its the age of my controller card?

I can plug into the internet, on my ShopBot PC for updates but I NEVER leave it connected to the internet for any length of time.

[Brady Watson]

Tim - Yes ~ if the monitor goes dark after some time, you definitely want to take a fine toothed comb to your power settings. The problem you're having isn't all that exotic - many have gone through this after years of trouble free operation for no other fact than, they haven't run a 3D file that takes long enough to trigger power saving mode. :)

I wouldn't worry too much about the control software. I specifically run v3.5.18 on one machine because it has been both rock solid stable (on both v201 and v213 IIRC cards) - and keyboard mode is way more responsive than post-Desktop versions. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Try the power saving settings and USB Suspend off - and rerun your file in like MDF or something. If all goes well & the tool has been reliable otherwise in the past, just leave the control software alone. You'd have nothing to gain. There isn't anything new or groundbreaking to switch to the new version...although SB Support will want you to be running the latest version if you expect support.

-B

[tim_mcknight]

I called the mother ship and they sent me a PDF file describing changing all of the power saving modes as you discussed earlier. I did that and was then able to download the latest Sb3 version. I also updated the firmware after that. Odd thing happened is after powering up my machine it thought the e stop button was pushed but it wasn't. The new software changed my e stop to normally open condition so I had to change it back to NC and all works fine now.

I air cut the same 3D file 10 times in a row with no glitches or freezing. I now think the power saving settings was likely the root cause of the problem.

I noticed the the jog features are not as fine as they were on my earlier version of the operating system. I wish I had that feature back. The Z zero works faster on the newer version which is a plus.

[Brady Watson]

Glad you got it sorted.

Yes - the e-stop thing happens on some configurations when upgrading.

If you don't like the way 3.6.46 moves your tool around, revert to 3.5.20 download here (http://www.shopbottools.com/files/Setup_sb3_5_20.exe)

Be sure to run the UI command after you install it so the firmware matches. You can always go back to 3.6.46 + firmware if your file doesn't run right again.

-B