First large sign job

[guitarwes]

This was my first legit sign job for the Downtown Statesboro Development Association. This was to replace the original wooden sign damaged by hurricane Matthew in 2016. Statesboro was a finalist for the "America's Best Community" contest hosted by The Weather Channel. While we did not win first place, we did win $1million to go towards community development improvements.
This sign is .75" PVC painted with acrylic latex. I had to do major vector editing to get the toolpaths. I underpriced it a bit to get my feet wet to actually have a big sign job to put my name on. And judging from Joe's last post on his PVC sign, I am way the heck off on pricing.........waaaaaaay off.

31419
31420
31421

[joe]

Wes,

Good for you.
Using a material like this takes a little time to learn how but worth the effort.
I'm paying $120. for one inch material. 1" is a little more stable if the background is painted dark.
At this time we are beginning a new 4'X8'. It's invoiced at wil lat $3,200. That breaks down to $100 per square foot. Nothing new on that front.

[guitarwes]

Thanks for the reply Joe.
I glued a 3" vertical strip of .75" PVC to the back of both ends of the sign and lower banner to give me a little more meat to bolt it to the angle iron supports I installed. I used your advice on the Gorilla PVC glue for those strips and for the flat top "roof" parts. Thanks for the advice, worked really well.
I charged $850 for this job. I made a little bit of money but gained a lot of exposure which has led to a couple more small jobs which I hope will lead to more bigger jobs which I will price more in line with what I should be charging.

Please share the sign you're working on. I appreciate all your posts and replies.

[joe]

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31454&stc=1

3M VHB Tape
E 6000
E6001


Joe

[Greencarvings]

I'm sorry, but you gave that one away. I always tell someone that for a ball park estimated $100-$150 per square foot plus surcharges for unique or site issues.

If they don't like that price then I simply tell them our alternative pricing is the first one is a million dollars all the rest are free.

[joe]

I agree with Patrick.
What a mistake!
Don't expect assistance from our company.

[jerry_stanek]

He made a mistake but everyone does sometime. You have to learn from them.

[guitarwes]

Sorry to ruffle feathers but I didn't make a mistake in pricing, I priced the materials and added $600 for my labor. I intentionally underpriced it (to what I thought other shops would price it at) to be able to secure the job to build up my portfolio. Don't tell me you've NEVER done the same of some sort. Someone else may have underbid me, I don't know that, but the guy in charge of ordering the sign is an acquaintance of mine and wanted to give me a job. Mostly to get my name out there for other work.

I'm sorry Joe and others, but if you charge $100-$125 sq/ft on signs like this around here, you'd have no business and would have to get another full-time job somewhere else to pay for your ShopBot just sitting there like a boat anchor.

.

[Greencarvings]

I'm sorry Joe and others, but if you charge $100-$125 sq/ft on signs like this around here, you'd have no business and would have to get another full-time job somewhere else to pay for your ShopBot just sitting there like a boat anchor.

Hog wash, Compare apples to apples, most companies would have thrown up a printed piece of polymetal. That is why they are cheaper. There is a place for giving stuff away. These types of things are schools, and your own church or friend. Whenever I order banners, I always throw one in for the school. Whether it is chess club, or speech club....not the sports clubs, they have a very lucrative budget. So a banner is $1/sq ft whole sale. Eventually someone comes to you and says they need a real sign.

How many hours did you have into that sign? $1/minute is charged for the machine. Plus all your time. So you made what? $1.50/hour. I am not on your case, what is done is done, however, there is a place for discounts but use them wisely. A better use of your time here would have been drive through your local town, find the ugliest, most hideous sign you can find in a high traffic area. Go in and talk to them and give them the spiel you want to get out there and break into the market so you would like to give them a sign for cost. When one day a beautiful sign goes up and everyone takes notice they ask them who did their new sign. No one is going to call the city and ask who made that sign, but when they are sitting there at the hairdresser getting their hair done, they will ask who made them their new sign.

[guitarwes]

I had about 5 hours cut time and labor in it. $600/5 = $120/hour. I don't know what you do but that's pretty good money for me.

I'm in a rural part of southeast Ga., not a big city. There are 6 sign companies and 50 vinyl letter businesses within a 20 mile radius competing for business and most get large sign work many many miles from here so they can get big jobs. I understand completely the costs of running a business and understand why the bigger sign companies need to charge more to keep the lights on and employees paid. I get it. An extremely small percentage of businesses looking for a $1000, $3000, $5000, $10000+ sign is not going to come knocking on my door wanting to drop that much cash on someone that hasn't produced any signs of that caliber before. Even though I probably could build a high dollar sign, I haven't had the chance.
With the sign up in my original post, I wanted to do something relatively impressive for my first sign at a very reasonable price that would make me a reasonable profit that I can have show other businesses. What's got everyone so anal about that? I'm just getting started.

[joe]

Wish I had a nickle for every time I was told we couldn't sell signs at that price.

I took a quick look at sign prices in your area. Check this out. http://discountwoodsigns.com/SandblastedSigns.html

[EricSchimel]

Joe is your hourly rate that high because you outsource your CNC work?

[joe]

Eric,

The major reason I outsource much of my work is to save money.

My strong suite is finishing, drawing, concepts and sales. Once upon a time I used post hole diggers too. Not long after I gave up on that practice I employed others to run the router.

Your question exposes your lack of knowledge about the going rate for this kind of work. Perhaps you should look at the national pricing guide.

[EricSchimel]

I don't recall claiming to have any knowledge about sign pricing so you haven't "exposed" me. I was asking a question to help the original poster get to the answer he's looking for. He's got a CNC and you don't.

Like many similar businesses the equipment you own vs what you outsource can influence what your costs and how you price.

[joe]

I'm in love with the craft of making signs. It's a vital service to my community but requires some creativity.When I started out, back in 1981, I did so as a full time sign fellow. I'd show up at the customers business with a drawing pad and pencil in hand. With a few suggestions from them the sketch would begin. I was ninety percent complete in a few minutes and pricing was done on the spot. I operate the same way today. When leaving their business the concept is fairly complete and they know what it's going to cost.

I've found this technique to be very efficient. O, I don't leave the drawings behind. Sure fun to make new friends this way.

[EricSchimel]

We all know how much you like making signs Joe :)

[guitarwes]

Thanks for the commentary and opinions guys. I can always take lemons and try to make better lemonade going forward.

Thanks for the link Joe. I have no idea who that is or where he's from, but he look like he does good generic work.

[Tim Lucas]

I think y'all may be taking Joe the wrong way.

He speaks right to the point but means No Disrespect and Loves to help Anyone wanting to create signs. He gives freely his pricing to help not to hurt. Lots of folks keep there pricing hidden.

I have never met Joe and only know of him from this forum but have grown to understand his passion about helping anyone.

Just my penny worth

Tim

[EricSchimel]

That's not been my experience in the past, and according to this thread I'm not alone.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?21979-New-Vacuum-table-design-thoughts&p=191079#post191079

Read a page or two past that link. You'll see what I mean.

[joe]

Thanks Tim,

I appreciate your kind words.