LEVER Sign

[EricSchimel]

I made a giant 16 foot long sign the other day:

31919

It's backed with LEDs that I got from Hafele. It's got a touch on/off/dimmer switch hidden on the back as well. This was it on during the day in full sunlight. It was pretty dramatic at the party it was used at overnight.

I cut this on my ShopBot using PVC for the front letters, MDO for the back panel, and scrap MDO for spacers. The letters and the spacers had dowel holes in them for perfect alignment:

31920

The toolpathing was all done with www.getfabber.com (http://www.getfabber.com). I worked with the client on the SketchUp model you see below. Then when I got to the shop I just selected the parts I wanted to cut. After putting material on the machine I was able to go from 3D model to toolpathing in just a few seconds.

31921

The full gallery is here. Let me know if you have any questions!

[joe]

Erik,

Excellent sign.That kind of sign isn't too difficult to make and gets lots of praise. Keep up the good work. Show us more.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31922&stc=1

[EricSchimel]

My name is spelled with a "C" at the end Joe. ;)

Signs are pretty easy to do, especially ones like this. The main reason I posted this build is that I've used a totally new method for creating the toolpaths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9Cmrg-lkkY

This workflow I've created really allows one to work on a design in 3D and go right to CNC fabrication eliminating much of the fuss of manual toolpathing.

I'd be interested to see what your CNC guy/gal thinks of using this method over their current methods.

[curtiss]

Erik & Joe,

So basically the standoff distance is about 1-1/2 inches ?

What type of hardware do you use to hold the letters ? are they part of the electrical connection ? Do they just snap on and off to the background ?

Favorite LED lights & transformer you like for small sign ? Perhaps you have a photo that shows more of the wiring details or a diagram... thanks

[pro70z28]

Nice looking sign Eric.

[EricSchimel]

You are correct Leds the total thickness of the sign is 1.5". The back panel is .5", the spacers are .5" and the PVC letters are in the front are also .5"

The hardware is pretty simple, I just drilled dowel holes partially through the back of the PVC letters and all the way through the back panel and the spacers. The dowels were 1.25" long and .25" diameter. Installation was just pressing the dowels in the hole and pressing the letters on the front. I glued them and screwed them through the back.

For the lighting I used Hafele Loox:

https://www.hafele.com/us/en/product/silicone-ribbon-light-loox-led-2030-12-v-cri-90/000001260001bbf500020023/#SearchParameter=&@QueryTerm=under+cabinet+lighting&Category=JBfAqBtGzM8AAAFCbk1kdqCz&@P.FF.followSearch=9678&PageNumber=1&OriginalPageSize=12&Position=9&OrigPos=11&ProductListSize=59&PDP=true

These systems are really easy to work with. In my setup there are two transformers that power the letters. There's about 75 feet of LEDs here. The two transformers are tied together by one touch dimmer switch. All of the connections are plug and play and pretty easy to do. On larger projects like this I tend to use Hafele lights. They're really versatile, reliable. There's great documentation from Hafele, along with their tech support which is great. I do believe you need to have an account with them to order their stuff however.

[joe]

For those starting out with with this kind of sign it's best to stay on the safe side and not use MDO or any other wood products as substrates. It's doubtful there is a UL sign inspector going to give thumbs up on that.

The question of how much stand-off is best to give proper illumination. That's governed by the size and stroke. For example if you're using 22" letters that are double stroked, you may need a 1.25 stand-off while letters like the "R" in my photo will need only .5". But that's all fun to figure out once you have the LED's on the back of the letters. Also you can specify wide angle units. I use Graphic Solutions Group which is a standard sign supply. You can go to their website and get prices and specs or give them a call.

https://www.gogsg.com/2325951/Product/Principal_LED_SS1STW-108

One of the considerations with this kind of lighting are hot-spots. Check out Eric's panel. You want to keep these as even as possible. Some of that can be controlled by how close the modules are place to each other. I don't object to some un-even lighting but it should be consistent. An example is the DeGraff's restaurant sign.

Another wonderful quality of this kind of sign is how simple the design and tool path. Aspire or Artcam will do the complete job. No need for going into 3d mode. Using SketchUp is much like playing Donkey Kong. Total waste of time. This is the most simple profile routing a person can do.

After years of making LED signs I have yet to have the first repair call. However, if you make your letters easy to remove it shouldn't be all that difficult.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31932&stc=1

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31933&stc=1

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31934&stc=1

[EricSchimel]

Joe you've misread the application of this sign. MDO and PVC are the correct material here.

The original intent of this post was to share how the toolpathing was done using a new process. Can you elaborate on how you think that my process is "donkey Kong"? As I remember you don't do any toolpath creation anymore since you farm out all of your CNC work right?

[joe]

Eric,

I tool path all my signs in Aspire. That's the only way to make sure the router services will do what's needed.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[EricSchimel]

Have you ever tried designing something in SketchUp and using the either the built in importer or the one that I've created?

I'm just trying to get at to the root of the "Donkey Kong" comment. Donkey Kong was a really fun and easy to play game, so maybe this is a compliment?

I suspect it's not. In either case, I'm building software to ease the process of going from design to fabrication and I appreciate feedback both good and bad so we can improve the software. "Donkey Kong" isn't really something I can take action on however.

[robtown]

Have you ever tried designing something in SketchUp and using the either the built in importer or the one that I've created?

I'm just trying to get at to the root of the "Donkey Kong" comment. Donkey Kong was a really fun and easy to play game, so maybe this is a compliment?

I suspect it's not. In either case, I'm building software to ease the process of going from design to fabrication and I appreciate feedback both good and bad so we can improve the software. "Donkey Kong" isn't really something I can take action on however.
Have you tried adding flaming barrels to your software?
And no, Aspire is not the only way to make sure the router does what you want it do do... Aspire is the only way some people know how to make the router "do what you want it to do".

[EricSchimel]

Ha, there are no flames of any kind that go into the software :)

Agreed, Aspire is pretty great (which is why we support it) but certainly not the only choice.

[joe]

Perhaps we could see some really creative layouts by Eric. What would be even better is to see more of his signage. After all he has lots of sign suggestions!

[EricSchimel]

I typically don't post a lot of projects unless it helps people with their workflows. One of the driving factors for me creating this software was doing complex multimedia projects like this:

http://www.digitallyfabbed.com/#/arcade-machine-1/

And this:

http://www.digitallyfabbed.com/#/sound-proof-booth/

And this:

http://www.digitallyfabbed.com/#/foosball-table/

These projects are all multimedia, IE they required not just the CNC, but a paint shop, vinyl/sign work, 3D printing, and even circuit board design. These projects all required 3D models so that the ideas can be communicated with the client, and also the same models were used for all of the engineering as well.

Extracting the machining/printing/cutting/circuitry information from the models has always been a chore. In many cases it takes longer to get that information out of the model than it does to actually create the design. Things can get really time consuming when design changes are needed, or when multiples of a project need to be made but they have slight variations.

That's why I'm creating software to make this data extraction easier. While the software isn't quite at "arcade machine" level processing just yet, 2D signs like the one I posted at the beginning of the thread are well within it's scope of capability, and I think really illustrate the potential for a lot of time savings for users, which is why I posted that project in the beginning.

For those that are interested in trying the software, check it out at www.getfabber.com. It's a free beta right now.

31935

31936

31937

[Brian Harnett]

Nice work Eric. Now off topic of the sign, Sketchup from the little I have used it is not a parametric modeler correct? Is there a plugin that can make it that way? I like the capability of editing that parametric design software gives.

[James M]

Keep posting Eric, I like how you think. I enjoy reading how people solve problems.\


James

[joe]

I sue like making money!.

This looks like a looser.

Joe Crumley

[EricSchimel]

Joe, are you missing a few keys on your keyboard?

Anyway, I'd take a close look at the joinery I've used on these projects, it's far from "looser".

Or, perhaps you meant that it's a "loser" in that I didn't make money on these projects. You've challenged me in wallet measuring in the past, and I'm not going there.

Thanks so much James. I'm happy to share my workflows and help problem problem solve. Let's hope that another thread doesn't get ruined by one bad apple.

Brian, SketchUp does have parametric function in it called Dynamic Components, but it's not that conducive to modeling for CNC cutting. When you make something parametric in SketchUp you often wreck arcs and circles. I actually teach parametric design in SketchUp (and other programs) and can point you at some of my free online classes if you're interested. It's great for space planning however and cabinetry. I actually have a software product that I've made for that, and I'm happy to share if you want to see it but I don't want this to come across as an advertisement for software.

I've been using both Onshape and Fusion 360 for parametric design. I greatly prefer Ohshape. It's parametric abilities are top notch. Check out this video:

https://youtu.be/jsJ9xcFYMEM

Joe, you won't find any "looser" joinery in there. :)

[robtown]

Joe, are you missing a few keys on your keyboard?

Anyway, I'd take a close look at the joinery I've used on these projects, it's far from "looser".

Or, perhaps you meant that it's a "loser" in that I didn't make money on these projects. You've challenged me in wallet measuring in the past, and I'm not going there.

Thanks so much James. I'm happy to share my workflows and help problem problem solve. Let's hope that another thread doesn't get ruined by one bad apple.

Brian, SketchUp does have parametric function in it called Dynamic Components, but it's not that conducive to modeling for CNC cutting. When you make something parametric in SketchUp you often wreck arcs and circles. I actually teach parametric design in SketchUp (and other programs) and can point you at some of my free online classes if you're interested. It's great for space planning however and cabinetry. I actually have a software product that I've made for that, and I'm happy to share if you want to see it but I don't want this to come across as an advertisement for software.

I've been using both Onshape and Fusion 360 for parametric design. I greatly prefer Ohshape. It's parametric abilities are top notch. Check out this video:

https://youtu.be/jsJ9xcFYMEM

Joe, you won't find any "looser" joinery in there. :)
Viz pro for SketchUp looks interesting for parametric modeling.
I haven't played with SketchUp much since I'm a 3dsMax/Maya guy, so I can't really speak to its capabilities.

[EricSchimel]

I've used Viz before and it is quite interesting. It doesn't support arcs and circles just yet. I've talked with the folks that make it and it sounds like that those features are on the horizon though.

Here's an OnShape drawing of a table I make on a regular basis:

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/c8e505f1a9fd03ee50066c27/v/4accd2f2767c5686b761a2c1/e/0c3c739c3cb1644ea30ba4c5

If you click on the "Master parts" tab on the bottom left you can alter the dimensions of the table and it will automatically rebuild itself. Go back to the assembly tab to see the changes.

Parametric drawings like this for something that needs to be made over and over that have variations are really useful.

It's really useful for things like cabintetry as well.

What are you designing and making in Max/Maya? And what's your process for getting from those programs to toolpaths?