Box Gadget: I'm confused by the vectors for profiling ('Box Layer' vs CutOut Layer)

[carolinasmith]

I was excited to try out the Box Creator (v1.1), but alas the Square Tabs I profiled were way off. I wanted two inch square tabs, but the tabs came out 2.25" and the receiver space was only 1.75". Glad I practiced on baltic birch...

I was confused when I selected the vectors to profile, since the CutOut layer has an outer vector (with arrows) and the Box Layer has the vector that I assumed would be THE box parts. Normally when I profile, I am used to choosing a single outline, So I ignored the CutOut layer vector and only profiled the Box layer vectors, choosing to cut outside the line.

After my failure, I looked at the vectors again, thinking I needed to choose the CutOut layer vectors only, but they don't seem to fit when I scoot them next to each other in Aspire. I used a 0.25 inch EM and did an Allowance Offset of the radius (0.125)

Thanks if someone can help me see the error of my ways.

[EricSchimel]

Did you perhaps have it set on dovetail mode? That might explain why your tenons were really large on one side, they probably were supposed to have an angle cut into them. Check the settings in the gadget carefully.

[carolinasmith]

No, they were clearly cut as square tabs, everything at right angles, but thanks.

Has anyone used the Box Creator (v1.1) gadget successfully for square tabs?

[EricSchimel]

I follow what you're saying... When you use the box creator gadget and you have dovetails set, you actually get square tenons on the screen represented as vectors. If you select those vectors and run an outside toolpath, you're going to get tenons that don't fit if you expect square tenons. With an error that large that could very well be what's going on.

The other thing to look at is what side of the line you're cutting on, sounds like you were about .5" off which is two times the diameter of the bit you were using.

it also sounds like you're manually setting up these toolpaths, which is why I'm suggesting looking closely at the options and how you make your toolpaths. Is there any reason you didn't want to use the toolpaths that the box generator makes for you automatically?

[carolinasmith]

Hi, I never wanted nor did I select the dovetails... I clicked on the Square Tabs box, because I wanted box joints, not dovetail joints. I did not see any toolpaths from the box generator???
That is why I 'selected' all vectors, and was going to the toolpath menu, but I thought I saw two vectors for each piece, so I then manually selected (using the shift key) all the vectors from the Box Layer, and then proceeded to the Profile menu and manually set up the toolpaths.

I'll try running a new box file again to see if it gives me gadget generated toolpaths. I didn't see any, or at least I didn't think to look for any. I guess I thought I had to make some... I sure hope that was my problem! Thanks and I'll look again.

[EricSchimel]

If you want, post the file that was giving you trouble.

[carolinasmith]

Eric, I got rid of the file, but I just tried the gadget again, only this time I looked for the toolpath file, and sure enough, it was there. Thank you for suggesting that, I'm pretty sure that was my problem. I hope to run a practice file again tomorrow. One thing that I liked about the gadget was that I could center a texture/model on one or more sides. I'm thinking of making a box to house chef knives (the box is filled with bamboo skewers instead of formed slots).

How should I think about the 'allowance'?

I think I'm gonna have success, thanks to your insight. Thank you!

[EricSchimel]

The allowance is the gap between the parts. A value of zero will make it so the parts will fit VERY tight (assuming your machine is dialed in). That's a good choice if you don't mind some sanding. If you want it to slot together with no sanding try .02-.04 and see where that gets you.

[carolinasmith]

I did a practice run, and it works, but I don't like the radiused internal right angles. Am I stuck with these? I find the sharp internal angles and sharp external angles grayed out when I hoped to edit it.

I have never done dovetails. Do the dovetails have radiused internal angles as well? I like a flush fit at all angles. Thank you.

[scottp55]

Carolina,
Bill Young was playing with a jig for vertical clamping for dovetails/fingerjoints....Maybe contact him and see if it's ready for Prime Time as you Have a Max?
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?24802-Looking-for-Desktop-accessory-testers

Also maybe download and test G's Demo models of Tailmaker and Fingermaker If you don't want to take off one more of your extrusions?
http://www.tailmaker.net/home.html

I THINK you'll always have to deal with the radius of the bit used....but have NOT played with it.
scott

[tri4sale]

Carolina,
Bill Young was playing with a jig for vertical clamping for dovetails/fingerjoints....Maybe contact him and see if it's ready for Prime Time as you Have a Max?
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?24802-Looking-for-Desktop-accessory-testers

scott

Nice timing, they actually posted on Facebook yesterday that it's been released

https://store.shopbottools.com/products/edge-clamp-joinery-kit?variant=8774578700324&fbclid=IwAR1NIQNiEr8pnHTbeVV0W_tKyc53OuolhakmNK2Qo SZUldhLI2wVMHQ7TCs

It's been added to my Christmas wish list

[carolinasmith]

Thanks Scott,
I installed Fingermaker. It looks more daunting, but I will check it out... I can't remember if it has sharp angles on the mortises and tenons, I think it might.

[scottp55]

READ Gert's DETAILED instructions!!!

He Beta tested it on this Forum, and does seem daunting, but a lot of that is because of all the options:)
If a Brand Newbie like I could do it 4+ years ago..then you can! :)

Keep meaning to get back into it, but things keep coming up(REMEMBER....Bit cuts using a LOT of cutting edge, make sure you have enough on your straight Ball Nose....AND bit will go into spoilboard the radius of the Ball Nose,so adding a separate carrier board is not a bad idea!)

Maybe G. will chime in?
I can't remember about square fingers:(

scott

THANKS Dan!! :) Too bad I have an old Desktop with a single Y-screw in the middle!

[tri4sale]

THANKS Dan!! :) Too bad I have an old Desktop with a single Y-screw in the middle!

Makes me want to go buy a Desktop Max!!! But at least they say this "This accessory can also be used with our larger gantry model tools by modifying the table bed, creating a slot so that material can be mounted vertically on the front face of the jig." just wondering what is involved in "modifying the table bed"