Looking thru previous sub-forums, it seems to me that this site has had

[Bud Meade]

a significant decrease in traffic over the years.

If so, what do you think is the cause?

[steve_g]

Bud…

Many of the friends we’ve made here over the years are still in the CNC industry… just with different brand machines! Some still check in here even though they are fabricating under different colors.

Why did they move on? Some situations of which I’m aware: they were very successful and had to move on to bigger, better, more reliable tools… ShopBot leadership would never admit defeat with their connection problems… Other, offshore tools beat ShopBot pricewise and now even in reliability. Many stateside manufacturers have done what it takes to become competitive. In my humble opinion, ShopBot directed much of their research, development, and design efforts toward the HandiBot… an overpriced toy where there are tons of other players.

I still use my PRT Alpha daily, but I was never more disappointed with it than when I operated one of my customer’s Shopsabre machine… granted, it’s a massive tool that required a rigging company to deliver and set it up, but ShopBot has kept their erecter set mentality and don’t even offer an “industrial” tool.

Also… CNC routing is a more mature industry now. Folks used to come to the forum to ask questions and learn… those questions have been asked and answered!

SG

[dlcw]

To expound on Steve's comments, there has not been much in the way of progress on the bigger machines. This market is no longer owned my ShopBot. They gave it up by focusing more on hobby types of machines then machines that can be used to run a business with. I use my PRSAlpha 96x60 with ATC regularly. But I'm getting ready to retire so I won't invest in a new machine. No longer need the production capabilities. At its peak PRSAlpha machines were the standard. They are now YEARS behind the competition. If ShopBot management had payed more attention to this market and continued to move their machines forward, they would still be a big player. Most of the posts I see here now are people selling their machines and moving to more advanced machines.

Very sad this has happened. But I think ShopBot management lost touch with its user base and ignored the suggestions and recommendations that experienced users were providing that could have made a big difference in where they would be today.

[coryatjohn]

Please also note that this forum is running http: (not secure) instead of the now defacto https: (secure). Seems like someone is just not keeping up with the times.

[pappybaynes]

I cut my teeth on a Shopbot machine...going to an event at headquarters in 2007. I purchased a 48x96 PRT in 2008 and used it part-time for years. I decided to go to a smaller unit as I was using most of my table as a storage area! Eric Schimelpfenig purchased the machine from me and it is still in use, although he has heavily modified it. I wanted to go to the new desktop max...but it was going to be delayed by another 6 months so I went to another manufacturer (yellow). I regularly log in to the forum as I do have friends here. I too have noticed the decline in traffic - unfortunate.

[ken_rychlik]

I had 3 shopbot's over the years and started repairing and selling machines. I'm glad I bought the first bot, but there is just a lot more (bang for the buck) machines out there now. The yellow lost comm screen drove me away the most.

[coryatjohn]

Shopbot is on the path towards eventual dissolution. They stopped innovating years ago and now are essentially eating their seed corn. Unless Shopbot makes a major investment in new technology and addresses the shortcomings in the existing machines, the company will simply cease to exist. How long will that take? Frankly, I'm surprised they made it this far.

I'm in the minority of folks that haven't had any issues with their machine. But every time I look at that skinny USB cable and the Rube Goldbergesque collection of gadgets that permit my machine to operate, I see that I am one tiny spark away from a litany of irritating and frustrating failures with no solution other than replacing the entire control system with non-SB equipment and software.

[phil_o]

I'm curious about the innovations that people are referring to for CNC machines from other manufacturers. Admittedly I am out of touch with the machines that are up to date with the latest developments. My Shopbot turned 15 this summer and since I am a hobbyist I haven't had a reason to check out new machines. What do the new CNC machines have that Shopbot does not have?

Phil

[coryatjohn]

I'm curious about the innovations that people are referring to for CNC machines from other manufacturers. Admittedly I am out of touch with the machines that are up to date with the latest developments. My Shopbot turned 15 this summer and since I am a hobbyist I haven't had a reason to check out new machines. What do the new CNC machines have that Shopbot does not have?

Phil

Can you say "Control system"? The current SB offering looks like (and is) a throwback to 2000 Visual Basic. The SB machine code is non-standard (G-Code is the standard). The USB interface is weak and prone to failures. The entire system is way too sensitive to even minor static electrical discharge.

Lucky for me, I have zero problems but know that I am one static shock away from a total system failure.

[dlcw]

1. The biggest advances are not getting the dreaded "Lost Comms" in the middle of a 6 hour cutting job and you have to start over.

2. Much higher cutting and jogging speeds (huge advantage for production shops, not a big concern for hobby users)

3. Less flex and slop in the machine. I've had my PRSAlpha since 2009 and no matter how much I tweak and adjust, the machine has significant flex. Makes for less than optimal M&T joinery in my cabinet parts

4. Much more up to date and functional control software. Provides more control over the machine and better feedback on what the machine is doing.

These are just to name a few. I'm not sure what ShopBot could do to catch up.

[coryatjohn]

I'm not sure what ShopBot could do to catch up.
I wonder if they've had their "Kodak" (or Xerox) moment yet.

[Gary Campbell]

I wonder if they've had their "Kodak" (or Xerox) moment yet.

I don't know if they ever will. For some reason, as a group the majority was always against any kind of controller improvements, wanting to stay with "the girl they brought to the dance" or SB3. Which by they way, and with full respect to Ted and his genius, was awesome when it came out but became less relevant with every year that passed. And now its been decades.

If you dont think that every comment I have made after leaving SB's employ is any different that what I said (in private) while I was there, you would be mistaken. Most of those comments, even with data or a demo to back them up were received with the majority of team leaders placing their finger in ears and loudly saying BLA BLA BLA!

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34809&stc=1

And if you wondered what my points of contention were, you can see them listed here, along with comments of some of SB's most experienced users:
Post Processor Modification (talkshopbot.com) (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?24425-Post-Processor-Modification)

BTW: why was that post left up to gather 33,400 views?

[8Ball]

I've been saying this forever, and I kept getting slapped around. Now, people are starting to open their eyes.
What happened to what's his name? Came in on a thread, kept saying he was fixing the issues, got upset, and left.
It looks as if all the posts have been deleted if I'm looking at the correct thread.
Just more excessive chatter, and no results.

When business owners don't listen to their customers, there is only one way it comes out.
Shopbot is realizing that, and are likely digging in their own pockets, to keep the name around.

[bill.young]

I'm not going to get into the middle of this discussion, but as a moderator I want to comment about posts and if/when they are deleted.

We have very rarely depleted posts or threads, mostly first posts that were obviously spam/illegal. We do occasionally lock threads, for a very few reasons:

*) The post devolves into personal attacks. We tend to lock them pretty quickly, and sometimes delete a post at the end of the thread that's especially obnoxious before locking it.
*) I get 3 private messages complaining about them. Usually this is resolved by a private message, but sometimes the thread has to be locked.
*) The thread becomes repetitive, with the same thing being said over and over. It's the "Enough is enough" rule, and we may lock the thread.


Since the beginning the TalkShopBot forum has been user-driven and intended as a place for users to ask questions and make comments. Unlike some forums we have always left posts in place, even ones that are critical, and tried to stay as hands-off as possible. It's the way we've always run it.

Bill

[whermansen]

Holy Moses. I stop in about once every 4 years to catch up on happenings and get help from the old CNC gods. I understand the tone of this thread and I gotta tip my hat to Shopbot. In 2003 when I was a poor, poor, silly, silly pup and bought my first PRT it was the best, reckless, uninformed, stroke of luck decision I ever made. That machine with this forum was a God send. All the sudden we became a manufacturer that had capabilities and could compete. We pieced together a small company from there. I am getting nostalgic. It is exhausting and expensive to innovate, develop and bring to market products that solve our customers problems and fills their wants. But to survive and sometimes thrive we must do it. I'm glad I saw this thread every small manufacturer needs to be reminded of this, but I digress I have to figure out a retro spindle upgrade for a bot that I think we can squeeze out 3 more years. Peace and Prosperity to All

[chiloquinruss]

Could the apparent lack of interest in Shopbot / this forum be as simple as the new buyers are much more in tune with XYZ technology than we were way back when we bought our machines. We had all kinds of question! The new buyers are upgrading from their home 3D printers or laser printers or . . . . Even their phone skills are better than our old dial tone skills. The earlier comment about the Facebook site reinforces this somewhat because of how technical the questions are versus how technical the answers are. The newbies know a lot more than we did, my self in particular and I came from a full working life of data processing computer skills. My bot is old, my Vectric software is old, but the money I still make every day seems to spend the same! LOL Russ

[whermansen]

Absolutely. the capabilities were just starting to cut deep when I got in. Our schools tech students have already cut their teeth on this CNC stuff. Its only application and imagination that they need to develop. So how do I lose the new member title??? I'm an old dog...or I feel it any how. LOL

[chiloquinruss]

I'm not really sure but I think the titles change by qty of posts not age. ;) Russ

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34829&stc=1

[chiloquinruss]

An additional thought this morning, I get "notifications" when some one posts to the Shopbot Facebook site. The Shopbot forum I need to go to it to see if anything has been posted. Just a thought and I haven't had my coffee yet so . . . . . :D Russ