Recreating these rosettes and medallions PLEASE HELP!

[rgreever]

Customer has an existing door with an ornate pediment that they want to duplicate for an adjacent door opening. All of the column toppers, rosettes, and medallions look to be custom made, and I can't seem to find these exact styles from any of the custom millwork suppliers online. I've checked White River, Van Dyke's, Carved Decor, Heartwood Carving, and a few others.

34918

The other other options that I see at this point are:
1) 3d scan the elements and try to recreate them in Rhino or Fusion360
2) Make a urethane mold and cast them
3) Photogrammetry?
4) Some other option that I haven't thought of yet?

[coryatjohn]

I suggest making a silicone (silicone is easier than urethane) mold and casting them in either a resin or plaster. Making a mold is pretty straightforward and what comes out should be very close to what went in. You could probably construct a mold box using aluminum tape (like the HVAC folks use) and make the mold in situ.

If you've never made a silicone mold before, this website has excellent tutorial videos.
https://bjbenterprises.com/

Here's an article I wrote on making a complex two part mold (you only need a one sided mold).

https://www.ferrari360.org/2021/12/creating-automotive-trim-using-two-part.html

[rgreever]

Thanks for the input, John.

We have a guy in house that does silicone mold making. Figured this was the best bet, but have you priced out silicone lately?! Crazy expensive! We were trying to go with a cheaper alternative, but still may end up going this route. Great article and work there, BTW!

[coryatjohn]

Silicone is probably the better choice if you're going to make the mold on the wall as it won't stain, won't stick to anything except itself (wax the items to be cast with Partall #2), and is likely to stay in the mold as it's got a very high viscosity. Anything that does seep out will just peel off the wall.

[GeneMpls]

John- how common is it for Ferrari owners to make their own parts?

[coryatjohn]

John- how common is it for Ferrari owners to make their own parts?

It's actually quite common, at least for the owners of older cars. It takes a certain amount of DIY to keep from being bankrupted by specialist technicians and parts companies. If you've ever owned a German car, you've had a taste. Multiply that by 20 and you're a Ferrari owner. I do all my own diagnosis and service so for me, it's actually cheaper to own the F car than a Mercedes out of warranty. So the spirit of DIY is quite abundant in the Ferrari world. Many parts for these cars were made in small batches and once the production run is done, that's it. No more new parts. The big companies that make aftermarket stuff aren't interested in making parts for a car with a total production for all years less than the production of Corvettes for a single month.

The DIY enthusiasts are constantly trying to avoid the "Ferrari Tax". Many of the parts that are in a Ferrari are also in a Mercedes (Bosch), a Fiat, or many other european cars. The alarm siren, a eye wateringly expensive item when it comes in the yellow box with a horsy, is the exact same part that fits in a Corvette, which is less than $100. The difference between the two is the firmware in the siren (yes, way too complex) which a DIY guy figured out how to change. He sells the updated Corvette siren for something like $50 over the cost. The siren module has a little rechargeable battery inside it that periodically melts down, destroying the alarm module. Another mod that folks do is remove the lousy battery from the module and replace it with an external battery so that if it does leak, it doesn't destroy the expensive bits.

There are dozens of examples of this kind of thing and I just keep track of the one model I have. It's a great business/hobby. Never get you rich but could make for an entertaining retirement.

[Joe Porter]

These look like some of the clip art from Aspire. Have you tried looking at their library? Check this and see if it is close to what you are looking for..https://store.designandmake.com/search/search/?p=2&cats=Decorative&types=Individual%2520Model ....joe

[Chuck Keysor]

I totally agree with Coryatjohn's recommendation to make molds and then cast the new parts you need.

1) The original parts are almost certainly made of cast composition or maybe plaster, not wood. (Look at Chicago Decorative Supply, their catalog has parts they have cast for way more than 100 years... https://decoratorssupply.com this is how they did such work unless a mansion was being made for Cornelius Vanderbilt.) And if the original parts are cast as I expect, you will note that they are exactly identical to each other, and they will have a huge amount of detail. Molding these parts is then in the spirit of the original work, as well as providing exact matches, that are highly detailed.

2) CNC carving these parts will be very time consuming even with off the shelf designs, especially if you aren't pleased with the detail and then add manual undercuts, and do chisel work etc to improve their detail (as I did on the few times I made Victorian replacement parts). Chances are, the new parts will never match even if you model them yourself.

Chuck

[Jerry Carney]

I totally agree with Coryatjohn's recommendation to make molds and then cast the new parts you need.

1) The original parts are almost certainly made of cast composition or maybe plaster, not wood. (Look at Chicago Decorative Supply, their catalog has parts they have cast for way more than 100 years... https://decoratorssupply.com this is how they did such work unless a mansion was being made for Cornelius Vanderbilt.) And if the original parts are cast as I expect, you will note that they are exactly identical to each other, and they will have a huge amount of detail. Molding these parts is then in the spirit of the original work, as well as providing exact matches, that are highly detailed.

2) CNC carving these parts will be very time consuming even with off the shelf designs, especially if you aren't pleased with the detail and then add manual undercuts, and do chisel work etc to improve their detail (as I did on the few times I made Victorian replacement parts). Chances are, the new parts will never match even if you model them yourself.

Chuck

they have a impressive catalog

[GeneMpls]

John- I drove and restored professionally the older [63-82] corvettes for 48 years. I did a show corv for a lady of the Fisher nut dynasty who also drove a 308... made corvettes look practical. I have created a lot of molds and parts over the decades. I had a 67 Conv that I and my daughter traveled all over the US with- over 150K miles- great experience. Now if I sit in one for 2 hours I need help getting out. I really enjoyed your website and thoughts. Gene