Noise, noise, noise

[GlenP]

Can someone please tell me what is going on. For some time I have asked around about the noise my motors make. The machine cuts fine but I have noise that sound like grinding on different occasions. I am a guy who hates rattles and noises so it is driving me nuts. Today I played around and found that if I do a move or log in both x,y the machine will make that noise in the x motors, but if I only move my x it is quiet and normal. My y motor is always quiet it is only the x motors that do this and only when running in both x and y directions at the same time. Does it at different locations on the rail and not everytime. Why would it only do this when moving in two directions and not if I do a single move? I am wondering if somehow my x motors get underpowered when the y motor is moving as well.

[ken_rychlik]

Glen, Knowing the machine you have and any upgrades you have done will help answer your question.

Mine is a 2004 prt and made lots of motor noise before the 4g board. Now it's pretty quiet.

Did the noise just start all of a sudden?

Ken

[bernott]

Glen, my prs alpha will do the same thing with certain move speeds. At certain speeds the motors will resinate a noise. that's my understanding.

[GlenP]

Hey guys, my machine is a 2007 PRS standard. I was doing some more testing and it seems it does not like the speeds 6 and up to 7.5. I was doing some J2 up the table and when I move the x at 60" and keep the y below 20" they are quiet, when I do the same x and take y past 20" they make that noise which as Bernie points out is probably resinate noise. Why is it only when I go past this 20" on the y? When I take the speed up to 8 they run fine. I was wondering if I was getting some low power and the motors where getting a bad pulse motion. The machine cuts fine and has never let me down. I have had this noise since new and just want to make sure it is just the way the motors work. All my testing is doing simple jog2 or move2 move with the router off. If anyone else could post their experience to help me put my mind to ease. Thanks for the response and hope everyone is keeping the wolf away from the door.

[zeykr]

Glen, I think I remember you have a std machine which should be using Gecko controllers.

There is a pot that can be adjusted on top of the Gecko's to reduce low speed resonance which might possibly help with your noise problem.

Seem's like mine were best with pot fully counter clockwise, but mark where your's starts at and adjust slowly.

Check the gecko manual for details. www.geckodrive.com (http://www.geckodrive.com)

[GlenP]

Hey Ken, yes I have the gecko drives and the pot is adjusted to the full counterclockwise. I still have this noise when testing at the speeds and movements posted above. I would really like to know why it does this only when moving the x and y and the y is past 20". If the y is below 20" it is quiet. ?? If I run only in one direction (x or y) it is quiet, it only seems to do this once you do a m2 or j2.

[john_hartman]

I may be dealing with a similar noise issue even though my machine is a PRS Alpha. As it turns out, I have about 1/32" or tad bit more of slop in the y axis between 0" to 12". Beyond 12" it is rock solid. Frank at SB advised me to simply adjust the y motor up so that the pinion would mesh better with the rail. My concern with this was since the majority of the y axis had no slop that it would only create more resistance. This argument was rejected because there is a thin rubber lining between the pinion rack and its mount, therefore absorbing any excessive pressure. I have not changed anything yet as I only had this conversation with Frank late Friday afternoon. You may want to drive the gantry around to the areas where there is noise and try to manually move (with both hands) the x and y axis' around for slop.

[GlenP]

Hey John, is your noise only when moving at certain speeds? My x motors are quiet when I only run a move in the x direction. If I do a move in both x and y with the y move over 20" then they make this noise. It also seems to be at the speeds on 6.0 to 7.5. When i move at 4 it is quiet and when I move at 8 it is quiet. I can make the x gantry run down the machine at any speed with no noise, just don't move in the y direction past 20". When the noise happens it is also at different areas of the rail. Hope pushing your motors up helps your noise. Again I am really wondering why I can run the machine in the x direction at 6 ips and no noise. I can do a m2 of x60 and y15 at 6ips and no noise. As soon as I try a m2 of 6ips of x60 and y22 it makes this noise. The noise is not constant and varies in the travel of the x axis. It also is only on the x axis.

[john_hartman]

Glen, I would say that noise I'm experiencing is only in the y-axis between 0-12", only moving towards 0,0. I have only noticed since I have been making light cuts at move speeds of 1.5ips. It is entirely possible and likely that this noise has always been there but cutting cabinet parts makes a lot more "cutting noise" which may have masked this motor/gear noise.

Your situation sounds really strange having a range of speeds and combination of x-y moves. Mine will make grinding noise if I jog/move above 10ips. Apparently this could be the PC not being fast enough to keep up..? If you do a speed loop test are you above the recommended 70%? From Frank's suggestion I got mine up to 78% by installing a USB shielded cable hub in between the pc tower and the control box. For some unknown reason this eliminates this problem. I was a simple $10 fix.

I'm a fairly new SB user (6 mo.)with limited trouble shooting experience. So this may have already been suggested. Did you assemble your machine? Is it possible that the rails, in the areas where the noise occurs, are too narrow or spread apart too far. I spent a lot of time squaring and making sure everything was true and parallel and found that it still wasn't right after 20+ of cutting. My machine was purchased barely used and the other thing that was off was the pinions not being lined up with the rack. The rack and pinion where staggered/offset about 3/16".

[GlenP]

Well I think my noise is caused by heat on the drives. I started up the machine this morning and every movement that failed on Saturday was quiet this morning. I started cutting and after 30 minutes of cutting it makes this noise again. It also lost its x home by around 1/4" on a part. I think I will give Frank a call this morning.

[dlcw]

I have a brand new PRS Alpha 96x60 with 2.2hp spindle and Air Drill.

I was having the same type of noise in both my X and Y axis. Z was dead quite all the time.

I found out on my X rails that as I sighted down the rail with the gantry moving, there were a couple of places where the V-track and the V-bearing did not align just right. I'd estimate not more then about 1/64th".

I adjusted the V-track and, after making sure my X motors were nice and tight and the pinions were nice and tight I did another check (same ShopBot Link cutting file that was making all the noise before adjustments) and all was quite on the X front.

The Y is a different story. I've checked track and bearing alignment - all good. I've reseated the Y motor several times as well as made sure the pinion was tight on the motor shaft. No luck. At certain jog speeds it makes a loud buzzing sound. I've not gone to the effort to figure out the exact jog speeds, but it seems to happen mainly with ShopBot Link, not with Partworks files. ShopBot Link cut files seem to move X,Y and Z faster and more efficiently then Partworks cut files. I sent a video/audio file of the problem to tech support, I was told the noise is normal. I'm not sure it's normal, but there's not a whole lot I can do to make it to go away.

As mentioned above, I think it is a resonance problem that can't be tuned out with the SB controller motor drivers. When the machine is cooperating and having a good day, it does a great job cutting.

Don
www.diamondlakewoodworks.com (http://www.diamondlakewoodworks.com)

[changrudy]

I came across this post while I was searching for some noise concerns coming from my new PRStandard 32 buddy.

I seem to have similar problems as you guys in that the jog movement has relatively quieter noise but as it moves slowly like to zzero or zero from prox switch it makes a godawful sound. That happens in all 3 axes when moving slow as well as 2 axis movements like Glen P. Actually, the only satisfactory sounds comes from single axis movements.

Maybe an audio file is in order, but is the shopbot supposed to be really that loud?

Thanks,

Rudy

[GlenP]

Well I am not happy to report I still have my issues and today lost my x2 motor / drive again today. After talking to shopbot support they again think heat is causing this one driver to shutdown if it gets too hot. Today the machine had only been running for a few minutes before doing it. Before the motor / driver dropout I had a noise that sounded like a pinion hitting end stops (grinding) then the gantry started racking with only one motor driving it. If heat is the issue why is it so soon after start up and why can I recycle power and the drive kicks back in and can run for the rest of the day???? I have had this same motor / drive drop out before and ruined parts. While my one x motor / drive was dropped out I tried running the gantry down the rails and it ran quiet and smooth. Once power was recycled and both x motors up the motor that had dropped out was noisy again. Frank asked me to check drive connections and perhaps move the drive to another motor and see if noise follows the drive...how do you remove these drives off the board. They are black G202 geckos. Machine is a PRS Standard 4896.

[khaos]

Glen that is a pain. On mine I had to take the board out. There is a set screw for each pin on the driver. The screw is perpendicular (90º) to the pins and parallel to the main board. Get yer tiny screwdriver out ...

[erik_f]

On my PRS standard they don't pull out from the board, you have to push them side ways, the green terminal block is soldered to the board. Mine were not screwed in...and aren't supposed to be as far as I know. I had a Z axis that would get real loud from time to time. It ended up being the driver. Not sure if this is the smartest way to do it, but while the machine was moving I wiggled the driver and was able to duplicate the noise on the bad driver only. When I plugged the driver into other motors it followed the driver. You could just unplug the connector and swap wires instead of swapping the driver for a quick easy test right at the control box (at least of your box is like my black computer style PRS standard box).

[GlenP]

Well my issue is still ongoing. Yesterday I changed the x driver that was dropping out with a new one shopbot sent me. Haven't ran enough today to see if it is going to hold but during 30 minutes of testing it did. One thing I am really having a hard time getting figured out is the noise the x motors will make at the speed from 5-7 when doing a J2. It makes a god awful noise like it is binding the whole way. If I set jog speed to 7 and do a J2 it is what I would consider normal motor noise. If I do a JX it is normal. Has anyone had something similar? I also have yet to be able to cut out a mdf door with sharp panel corners without it leaving a deeper cut in the corner. I am going to make a short video of it tomorrow and see if I can show support the noises I am referring to.
Also Frank and shopbot have been great to help and doing all they can to iron this out. I am on the edge of warranty and depending on when they start your warranty some companies would say too bad but shopbot is going to continue to cover the machine to resolve this issue. Top notch once again. I have a friend that couldn't get any warranty or support from another brand six months after purchase.

[GlenP]

Well guys botting life is good again here. After trying a couple new drivers and new motor shopbot sent me a new controller to try. All my motor noises are gone, pocket cuts are perfect now, vcarving is better and with a little bit more tightening up and fine tuning I am sure it will get better but it is certainly acceptable until my next maintence. I did replace my X and Y pinions as well. Changing the controller made a hudge difference before I could never do a area clear or pocket and get good results always seemed like when the z moved up and down it was at different heights. I thought it was my spoil board but I guess not. My comm speed is less for some reason but not a issue, still at 74. Thanks for the help and to Ted and Ryan at shopbot. They are top notch and care about getting things working right. Takes some time to troubleshoot but certainly did learn alot in the process.