Cabinet Makers

[hwd_woodworking]

We got a visit from a salesperson from cabinet Vision. They gave an impressive demo and told us that their 10,000 dollar software can produce all the cutting files needed for our shopbot. "with one click" I know some of that is hog wash, but was wondering if anyone out there was using something like it or actually using that software.

I am interested greatly in a parametric drawing soft ware to base a library of cabinets in, and be able to minipulate the library to fit our "custom" needs. The real advantage with this type of software is that when a change is made it changes in all aspects of your drawings including your cut lists, and possibly in your nested items.

Any thoughts?

Nate

[bleeth]

Nathan: There is a huge variety of cabinet specific software programs out there that do (in general) exactly what you are listing as your needs. I would suggest that you seek council of other reps, trade journal analysis, and , if possible, users opinions before you decide. Note that all of them are "customizable" and almost none capable of doing true custom without immense input. They are all designed to primarily produce semi-custom kitchens and if that is your field than they are a terrific tool for sales and production.
Dave

[hwd_woodworking]

I guess the question is how well does there software work with a shopbot. I know these are questions to ask the reps but I'm also wondering what other cabinet makers do out there for fast and efficient drawings. We draw in autocad then all parts that will be cut on the shopbot gets "lifted" off the drawings and prepared for an import to part wizard. Some things are the same but most are different and there seems to be a bit of time involved in that whole process. We have also realized that not all things are fast on the shopbot, so we have to balance between the table saw and the shopbot.

I'm just curious how others are efficiently pulling their information from there drawings, or linking them to excel that drives another nesting program. Again sort of like those cabinet software programs but thats not all we do so the justification is sort of not there. We probably do 50% cabinet making and the rest is completely custom woodworking (which we still use our shopbot for).

Nate

[bleeth]

As far as I know virually all of the commercial cabinet software out there will output a code that you can convert to SPB. The exception to this is is E-cabinets which you can get for free on the net. The catch is, since it is developed and administered by Thermwood, it only outputs Thermwoods code and as such can't be used to run any other cnc. As far as which ones directly output spb as opposed to dxf you can get that info from the suppliers, shop-bot, or other botters who know more about that than I. For me, since my building is all custom and I may do 2 or 3 kitchens a year, Commercial cabinet programs never worked for me. But I keep looking at them.

[hwd_woodworking]

Thanks Dave,

We are in the same boat as you. We do maybe a little more as far as kitchen (6) but everything is custom. It is very tempting to try out these cabinet softwares but I'm affraid after doing so I will be disappointed on some level then I will resort back to my old ways.

I suppose the best sullotion for now is to continue making our cabinet part library.

I was wondering what platform you guys use and how long it takes to get say a full kitchen to your shotbot.

Nate

[stickman]

Nathan and Dave,

I work for a commerical casework company. We use Cabnetware to output to our large machines in the shop. We have a beam saw and a point to point in the shop.

I have a shopbot at home, my personal business. I use a simple process of creating my side panel drilling patterns in AutoCAD or PartWizard, cut my panels out on a sliding table saw. I then use the shopbot to drill adjustable shelving holes, hardware and hinge mounting holes. It would be nice to have a nesting program, but I do all of it manually.

You can export dxf's from Cabnetware, though you can probably draw then just as fast in another program. The one nice thing about cabnetware, its fast drawing a kitchen or office with and you can output some nice VISUAL pictures for your customer. But, if your not doing 500 kitchens a year, it really isn't going to pay for itself.

Just my thoughts of the morning...

Jay

[johnnie53]

Call Shopbot tech support and talk to Chris. Shopbot is currently working on this software issue for cabinetmakers with solutions in the works right now.There is a new ArtCam program for cabinetmakers coming out very soon.
I'm trying to get up to speed on my new(Used PR96) for doing what Mack is doing, processing panels for cabinets after the parts come of the Sliding Panel saw. I just bought Parts Wizard (via conversations with Chris) and hope to start routing with the PR soon. Anyone reading this with cabinet exsperiance on your shopbot, I could use some help. Partwizard looks like a great user frinedly program, once I get the hang of it the bot will have plenty of work to do in my shop.

[hwd_woodworking]

Thanks Jay,
Thants sort of the conclusion I've come to myself.

John,
Part wizard is OK at best for drawing parts. If you have another program your familiar with it would be smart I think to use that then import them into part wizard. I say this because I'm very proficient at drawing in autocad so I'm probably spoiled, but I find part wizard to be a great tool pathing software and a bad drawing software.

I am trying to develop a part library that can be used as a standard template to at least start from, but each kitchen has been different.

Nate

[stickman]

Nathan,

That is what I have, well somewhat, a standard set of templates. I build cabinets that are of the frameless type, with a face frame on them. I get the ease of the concealed hinges and drawer slides, along with the face frame construction I want. In this way, I only have to machine the sides of the cabinets for hardware.

ITS Friday!

[beacon14]

John,

Did you get a chance to try the files I sent you? Did they make any sense? You can shoot me cabinetmaking/ShopBot questions here or via e-mail.

PartWizard can do pretty much anything you might need done to a cabinet part. I think it has more drawing power than most people give it credit for, like myself, since I can draw faster in DesignCad (because I've been using it for so long) I only use PW for toolpathing. When I've seen the ShopBot guys demo it I've always wondered why didn't I know you could do all the things they do.

Make sure you take some time to learn the ShopBot software as well. Much of the utility of the machine for me has come from automating the routine tasks. For instance, I had to rout a cabinet door to accept a glass panel, so I manually postioned the machine and entered the CR command to cut the rectangular opening. The next week, I had several more to do, so I wrote a short program that allows me to input the size and location of the opening, and depth of cut, and it does the rest, including pocketing if I want, and repeats itself if needed. Now I can do a kitchen's worth in the time it used to take to do one or two. These types of programs aren't generated by PW (or ArtCam Pro!), but written directly in ShopBot code.

I think it's the combination of being able to generate toolpaths easily and being able to manipulate the SB code to your best advantage that will allow you to get the most from your machine.

[max]

Hi guys I have ben building custom kitchens with my shop bot for about 5 years I have always had problums with using a library of cabinet parts as you have alredy stated all jobs seem to be diferant any way out of desperation I bought visual basic and a buntch of books and developed a parametric cabinet part program what it does is take your parameters that u input and given the length and width of your part and then produces a sbp code an i have also have it doing some nesting so that u can nest a entire sheet

ps let me know if ther is any one intereste in it

[beacon14]

"ps let me know if ther is any one intereste in it"

[hand raised] yes I'd like to see it

[waltie]

Max,

I also would like to see it

[weslambe]

Kind of like this?

4001



regards,
wes
www.doorbot.net (http://www.doorbot.net)

[jay]

Max, yes, I am interested in seeing it as well.
Cheers, Jay

[dmidkiff]

Max, I am also interested.
Thanks, Dave

[bleeth]

In just the last few days I have developed more of a need for cutting furniture panels on the bot due to quite a few orders for furniture with different radius curves. Your program sounds interesting to me too Max and a key question is whether arches can be derived from it and what parameters are used to develop the arch. This comes up as I already have a pricey (Artcam) 3-d program which I love and it would be a fairly simple job to develop a library within it for typical cabinet panels but its arc drawing tools use the wrong parameters for a series of point to point defined radius arches.
Alternately I would like anyones input on a basic cad program they know of that can do the job, output code convertible to SBC, and not cost the earth-Autocad is way overkill for boxes and curves!!(naturally I would like this bit of software to be intuitive to learn by someone who doesn't have much problem operating a piece of software but doesn't particularly want to build it)
Dave

[williamim]

Max

I would also like to see your program. I all ready use DoorBot and am very happy with it.

[zeykr]

I'd be interested in seeing your program also.

[paul_n]

Max....

Please put me on your program list, also.

Thanx
Paul

[max]

Thanks for all the interest this is a screen shot taken from the base cabinet end screen
this is where you nest your cabinet parts on your sheet each part such as tops and bottoms ect. all have thier own form and thier own paramiters anyway all you have to do once the paramiters are set is open the form and click the botton and bingo thier on the part tool path is ready to go I have spent alot of time on this and would like to sell copies so that I can justify developing the software further I havent realy setled on a price yet since its still in developmet stages but I would like to have some input Thanks Guys

ps for more info My phone number is 660-339-7212
just ask for max

4002

[stickman]

Max,

How does your program allow for anchoring of the sheet good to the table.

Looks pretty interesting.

Jay
StickMan WoodWorking
"Creativity in Wood"

[max]

Jay I use a 10 horse vacuum pump but I am working on a tabbing feture I should have it done in a couble of weeks one outher thing that I should mention is right now the program is mostly set up to use the same bit throghout the cutting prosess sice I only have one spidal and do comercial cabinets i didnot want any bit. changes I plan on working on that in the future giving the program support for a second z and the ability to split your tool path in case you want to use diferant bits

[weslambe]

Looks really nice!

Wes

[weslambe]

By the way, I am in search of a good wine to serve with crow.

Wes

[dovetail_@grics.net]

Max,
I would like to see your software also.

Les

[bleeth]

Zinfandel goes well with everything.

Dave

[Brady Watson]

Sounds like DoorBot is a nice complimentary package to Max's work. Maybe you guys could link up and do a joint venture...I like win-win situations, don't you?

-Brady

[oddcoach@aol.com]

hi guys
I'm joining this discussion late. I to build furniture and cabinets,with about 1 or 2 kitchens a year. everything else is very custom. I found the cad program I use in atlanta at the same time i found shopbot. It is a true 3d modeling program that is geared to woodworkers. its called pytha.
the price is comporable with cabinet vision, but thats where the comparison ends. you build your own library of cabinets that you can save parametricaly. you are not limited to using their database of cabints. you draw with basic geometric shapes, and your imagination takes it from there.
you can also generate pretty pictures for sales that absolutely blows cabinet vision out of the water. you can draw the entire house turn lights on and off. you can even make a movie with doors opening and closing, a movie file playing on a tv in the room.
If you haven't guessed yet i really love this program. i draw whatever i want save the parts as a dxf and use parts wizard from there.
if anyone is interested i can send you some pictures
max your software looks pretty cool too
john haggerty
oddcoach@aol.com (mailto:oddcoach@aol.com)

[fleinbach]

jh

Looks simular to Chief Architect. How expensive is it?

[JH (Unregistered Guest)]

HI FRANK
I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH CHIEF ARCHITECT. PYTHA IS ADOUT 10,000. SAME AS CABINET VISION
JOHN HAGGERTY

[fleinbach]

John

Chief is a lot cheaper around $2,200.00 I have been using it for 7 years so I am very familier with it. I don't know how they would actualy compare though.

[gary_n]

Max, I would also like to see your software.

Gary

[evan]

Max,
Please put me on the list, the program looks very promising.

Evan

[max]

We plan to be at the shopbot camp in ok.april first. And as soon as I get some material printed up on oure program try to get it sent out to anyone interested I will try to have information out sometime next month and have it ready for shipping.