Remote operation prt start & stop

[dingenis]

I try to work out a simple start and stop for prt using input signals.
situation___my prt is in the basement , my working place is 4 stairs up.
i set up a camera to monitor movement and sound upstairs.(This is a camera using a video server)
I wrote a program that is using input 2 to start running files and functions as emergency stop.
i would apreciate comments on this program and suggestions how this can be done better, specially the "wait" function.
How can i just make a remote start ? (like pressing enter during pause)

DETAIL OF PROGRAM BELOW:
'---------waiting for input signal-on input 2------------------------

WAIT:

[beacon14]

the label WAIT: must be on a line by itself - no comments or any other characters are allowed after the ":" - unless this has been changed?

I would PAUSE for only a second or two so as not to have to wait up to 10 seconds for the machine to start up after you hit the button.

Other than that I do not see why this would not work.

[Brady Watson]

Why not just get a wireless keyboard and bring it with you upstairs? Then you'll have a means to stop the tool from up there instead of watching the screen in horror because you programmed something incorrectly or had a clamp in the wrong place (which DOES happen)

I'm not totally following your logic in starting the file remotely. If anything, your primary concern should be to be able to STOP the tool at ALL TIMES. This may mean wiring a 2nd E-stop and putting it upstairs as wireless devices are not 100% reliable.

-B

[mikejohn]

dingenis
This (http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/show.cgi?tpc=22&post=832#POST832) link on the mechmate forum is a discussion on using minimum buttons to run a Shopbot.
The idea is the same as yours(almost). Whatever system you use, you need a remote control of some sort.

.........Mike

[dingenis]

brady,
icant use wireless because the building is a perfect faraday cage(concrete), even cellphone does not work there.
I plan to rewire the e_stop, so it will be normally closed, and put two of them upstairs, but hitting the estop wont stop vac router and dustcoll.
The need for a remote start:
once the machine is running i cant do much else in the basement.
i'm planning to cut files that will take 3 to 4 hours cutting.
i dont want to leave the machine unattended.
at least i want to be able to hear it cutting.(at all times)
mike thanks for the link,
I followed the logic of normally closed switches for limiting/ stop buttons.both e-stop and controlled-stop buttons will be placed upstairs.
david,your right
i will look up if i wrote the comment on the same line as the label in the file that i did run.i'll let you know if anything has changed.
thanks
D

[dingenis]

david,

the comment was on the same line as the label
in the tested file.
D

[dvanr]

Hey D

Are you using a normally open or normally closed switch?

The reason I ask is you have used
ON INP(2,0)&WAIT = 0 'SET INPUT 2 TO START FILE

instead of ON INP (2,1) as I've seen used in the past. There is no right or wrong switch here just a matter of how you react to the switch. In either case your program will react quite differently.


If your using a normally open switch the program just sits on
ON INP(2,0)&WAIT = 0 'SET INPUT 2 TO START FILE
setting &WAIT to 0 because the switch is open and thats what you told it to do. The program has no time to loop through WAIT: its to busy going &WAIT = 0

Normally closed is a whole other story...

[dingenis]

hi dvanr
the switch is normally closed, type pushbutton placed in line.
i picked up the the notion of using nc switches on this board.
I have only one input available for this remote start_stop function.
trying to make a foolproof start-stop routine.(fool being me)
btw the program is working, but needs "refinement".or totally different ideas.
thanks

[paco]

What's not working right now?

What do you want to achieve EXACTLY?

What do you want to tweak?

I would recommend both file control AND remote E-stop as previously suggested...

[dingenis]

hi paco,
"What do you want to achieve EXACTLY? "

reliable remote control using some buttons and monitoring the machine.(network facility ?)
start_ stop_ pause_ resume
remote is 4 stairs up, 3 doors to lock_unlock

"What do you want to tweak?"

find a way to get the same functionality of the keyboard command S (quit resume etc.) using input switches.
(planning upgrade to g4 gekko _it has 8 inputs , that would make things less complicated)
just wired from upstairs to the basement it was about 60 meters.

D

[paco]

I would check the A to B distance between the control PC and your office desk station to link with a terminal end of the control PC; keyboard, mice and monitor is can afford additional card. The whole question is if wire can reach without interferance (mostly keyboard; I wouldn't recommend wireless though)...
I have run my tool with two keyboards for a few months before without problem.
I'm not very familiar with but maybe you can come up with a remote desktop operation such as you can have in Win XP between two PCs.

[Brady Watson]

I've used up to 35' of PS/2 extensions in an industrial application (corded barcode reader because electrical noise was too high) and it worked without any problem. You may want to try that here and just use a keyboard wedge and 2nd keyboard. You don't need any input/outputs to do it.

How are you going to see both the monitor and the Bot so that you know what you are commanding? I am guessing that if you use cameras that you are going to have to deal with moire lines from the monitor in the camera feed.

-B

[bcammack]

There are boxes that will accept the PS/2 connectors for mouse/kbd and let you run the signals long distances over Cat5 network cable. Our Flowjet water jet cutter uses them to link the control PC on the back of the unit to the rollaround kiosk containing the display, mouse, and keyboard.

If anybody's interested, I'll go out to the shop floor and open the back of the case for make/model info.

[Brady Watson]

Brett,
I wouldn't mind knowing who makes the RJ45 to PS/2 deal...sounds like a nice way to do it.

-B

[dingenis]

-I wouldn't mind knowing who makes the RJ45 to PS/2 deal...sounds like a nice way to do it.
completely agree.(i have 2 networkcables going to the basement whitout problems))
right now i only see the bot on camera.
have not yet put up a second camera to see the monitor.
main functions i really need are the start stop and a proper pause and resume.
?keyboard cable of 60 meter ,isnt that a bit long?
thanks for suggestions.
D

[evan]

I would be interested as well.

Thanks,
Evan

[mikejohn]

This (http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/21/1511.html#MB) discussion on a remote link is covered in depth on the Mechmate Forum.

..............Mike

[dvanr]

D

Its an interesting bit of code, some ideas in there I am going to borrow and change.

Your GOTO WAIT loop , loops every 10 seconds, when there is a button press to start there is no delay starting (if you happen to be in a PAUSE, the ON INP forces the PAUSE to cut short.)

A couple of ideas.

You have 60 meter run of wire with a normally closed switch , so it looks like you have a way to walk. You could check that your button circuit is working properly before going upstairs. Before the loop I would put

&flag = "Error- Open circuit condition"
ON INP (2,0) GOTO STOP

if the circuit is open it stops. In the STOP routine add a line PRINT &flag when the program terminates you can see why

l would do away with the WAIT LOOP entirely and use a slightly different approach

'------Check switch circuit and see if it is working properly
&flag = "Error- Open circuit condition"
ON INP (2,0) GOTO STOP

---------waiting for input signal-on input 2------------------------

[trakwebster]

I used to have an application running on DOS, and so we had a DOS computer in one corner of the office. I found that using pcAnywhere (which at that time was available in both DOS and Windows), with a simple phone cord (twisted) plugged into the modem output on each machine permitted me to open a window on my Windows machine and link up the DOS machine within that window.

I have no idea if pcAnywhere would do that between two computers, but I've noticed that the WinXP machines have some sort of remote control utility built in. If both machines are WinXP you could probably just run a long phone cord between the two and into modem ports and make this work, or even simpler is to set up a network between those two machines (only) which just takes some coax. Any pals who love geeky pursuits? One of them can probably hook it up if you don't want to.

In that case you'd just be able to operate the ShopBot as if you were sitting in front of the ShopBot computer.

Would this overhead interfere with the bot operation? I don't know, but I know how you could find out.

You *can* run down the stairs real fast if you need to, right?

[bcammack]

It's a Gefen ex-tend-it PS/2
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2184

Another thought, if you have networking, consider VNC (virtual network computing) RealVNC, UltraVNC, etc. There are freeware editions. Like PCAnywhere, but over the network.

[dingenis]

hi,
using desktopsharing etc. it tried that and did not get it working properly.
AND as far as i know when the bot is running a file there is no network communication possible.
(before running files i close all communication o the LAn)to transfer files i use usb hard drive.
brett, thanks your extender looks good.
i only found sofar much more expensive elaborated devices.KVM switches even using such a device i want an e-stop next to me.
dvanr,
thanks for your input,
i like the flags and % cut and print.
i dont want to use a fixed pause.I want it to wait till im ready.
there is a delay in my program it is in the start up sequence of router etc.(time to release button).
Many things can happen on a small trip like going up the stairs.(Like losing keys, on the way up.took me 3 hours to get in last week).
as you suggest I have installed buttons to test the circuit before running anything.both e-stop and controlled start & stop.
Next thing to do is wiring up a Zdepth /height limit switch .so that the machine wil stop if it would cut deeper or go higher than it should.I trust the prox switches for the x an Y axis.
so this switch will be a normally open switch.


and NO i can not run down the stairs really quick.
thanks
D

[patricktoomey]

I have used dameware remote control to do this. It's just like PCAnywhere. I could log into the SB control computer, start and stop cut files, watch their progress, etc. I setup an X10 wireless camera to watch the machine. I decided to stop due to the dangers of remote operation and a near fire due to a part breaking loose from my indexer and getting jammed into the spindle. I first tried Windows Remote Desktop but when you log in from that you are in a separate session and you will get communications issues with the serial port. If the software is already running on the local console, trying to start it again will give you an error for not being able to connect to the port since the other copy of the ShopBot software is already using it. Dameware works like PCAnywhere in that it is just letting you see and control the current console session so there are no port sharing issues.

I must admit that I have continued to use this setup occasionaly for lower risk projects. I took 2 unused phone wires from the phone line that feeds the shop and used them to rig up an e-stop button in my office that runs all the way to the controller in the shop. Now, if I see something suspicious I can e-stop it from the office. Normally I could just kill it with the button in the SB software using Dameware but this way even if there are communciation problems I can physically stop the machine with the e-stop button. This is still very dangerous, I should never even do this and I would not recommend anyone else try it. The old "do as I say, not as I do" thing. ;-) Just for the record, I consider low risk to be cutting on the indexer or cutting with sheet stock screwed or clamped down with NO VAC HOLDDOWN SYSTEM OR DUST COLLECTOR RUNNING! The vac system or dust collector can speed a little fire along at an alarming rate and I would never attempt any remote operation with either of them running.

[jeff_guinn]

I use an X-10 low voltage relay & remote to activate my emergency stop.No wires & remote distance is good.Uses your home/shop 120v system to send signal to device.
Jeff

[dingenis]

thats a lot of reading on the mechmate forum on the topic of input_ouput switches.

i followed brett's suggestion and found a UTP KVM extender.
that lets you place a second monitor/mouse and keyboard up to 150 meters from the pc.using utp (cat5)cable.(did not know this could be done till brett's suggestion,thanks).I will go this way as well .
patrick, i share your concerns of the fire risk, and of communications, thats the reason to have multiple possibillitys to stop everything.
Controlled stop from within file, if it does not work , use shopbot console, if that does not work e_stop, (could go on like this).
I plan to use this set up only for files where there is "no" risk of loose parts.The vac is just to keep material (sheet) flat,not to hold it in x_y pos, using screws to do that.
The dust collection has an airflow sensor that will be put in the security switch line.No airflow means stop.Cutting without removing dust is more fire risk.and it wont run unattended thats the idea.

[dingenis]

hi,
considering all the information .
I will order a "utp kvm extender" with the possibillity to set up two workplaces,one near the machine, the other one remote.
(keep you posted after install ,wont be this week im afraid)

Dvar,
thinking about the possibillity to get into a pause and get out of it as well,
here is a demo, incorporating your suggestions
it gos into a wait loop, pressing button(pushbutton on input2 )more than 2 seconds but less then 10 seconds gets it out of the loop.
(maybe this is becoming redundant when installing the remote workstation, but even then after starting programs the only function of the of the box with switches will be to stop)
'printing has not been tested
' just a test file used for setup
'----------------WARNING
' DONT RUN THIS PROGRAM IN PREVIEW MODE _ IT WILL GO INTO A LOOP WAITING FOR INPUT!!!!!!!
'set up variables
&WAITMAX = 60

[dingenis]

thank you all for input

I have installed a kvm extender( aten ce250)
works fine.(with a local and remote unit)
Am very happy with the remote stop written in program, and the e-stop wired as nc, (thanks for your help dvr)
I installed 2 cameras 1 watching the room the bot is in, 1 watching the table(with sound).
these cams run over the network cable, witch means there is a delay between comand and picture.(about 0.5 sec on video and a little more on sound).
As it is it is working fine, did a lot of tests, sk etc.running cutfiles to testing limit switches etc.
i am going to install a real time video and sound connection.dont know yet how, the extender
works fine but requires a second computer.

thanks for all your help

dingenis