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View Full Version : DeskProto ~ Long but worth it!



Brady Watson
11-13-2004, 12:05 AM
For those of you that didn't attend Bill Palumbo's Camp this year, the afternoon was spent comparing various 3D CAD and CAM packages. I was elected to present DeskProto since I was having fun with the fully functional free demo...and you can too by going to www.deskproto.com (http://www.deskproto.com) It is 100% functional for 30 days...wait until you have something you want to carve before installing it. Also, change your post processor so that it saves it as an NC file instead of CNC. This way you can pull it right in with the G-code converter. Be sure to setup your ShopBot machine opposite of the default table extents...X-extents should be 96" and not 60". Same goes for Y values.

For the money, DeskProto is hard to beat. It is *VERY* easy to use with a good amount of powerful features. It is just about $1300 depending on exchange rates. For $1300 you get One-sided 3D, 2 sided 3D milling (awesome), 4th axis 3D milling (cheapest and best of anything out there for the indexer...don't chime in and tell me about TotemPole or BobCAD...mmmmkay? I like to actually see 3D previews in this day and age) and you can also do N-sided quasi-5th axis milling by indexing a piece on up to 6-sides. I believe the indexer is required for that, but may be able to use by indexing your material manually. Another GREAT feature that MillWizard lacks is the ability for DP to produce a 3D cut-out toolpath that traces the 3D geometry so that you can cut your part out...No more tissue paper left on the spoilboard and wasted time 'cutting air' or part extent ambient moves. Another little goodie is the ability to import 2D text/DXF designs and have DP carve it on the 3D geometry while following it's contours.

I'm at the tail-end of my time-limited demo of DeskProto. I wanted to do something with it before the time was up. A friend of mine asked me to cut out a Maple leaf in foam and I didn't have one in my 3D library...so...Here's what I did:

I took a leaf from the tree in the front yard and placed it on my flatbed scanner (did this in the summer...when it was green). Scanned it in a max resolution...I think it is 300 DPI on my HP scanner. I then brought it into Rhino and created a relief from the picture...doing it Hi-Res, it took a lot of RAM to get the job done. Once I had the relief, I did a rail sweep to redo the stem and carefully trimmed around everything so that I wouldn't have a flat around the extents of the leaf. Scaled up the STL to the desired size to fit on a 31-3/8" disk. The relief looked good at .5" high. Saved it as an STL. Then, using a combination of Rhino and Acme TraceArt, I got the profile of the leaf (from photo) and brought that DXF into Rhino. Then I began laying out the borders. I exported the leaf profile and border vectors as DXF...and then pulled them into PartWizard to do 2D operations.

Once I had my 2D work done in PW, I moved onto DeskProto. I used the Wizard to pull in the LeafSTL and setup a raster 3D toolpath. I didn't save the toolpath because I had some tweaking to do. It is very important that you setup the 3D and the 2D in Rhino in relation to each other. More importantly, when you pull the STL into DeskProto, you'll need to take the outer dimension of your border, in this case 31.375 and subtract what DP tells you the X and Y delta values are for your 3D geometry in the transform window. You must then take that subtracted value and input it in the 'Border' section of the 'Edit Operation Parameters' screen. This will place a border around the geometry that will center your STL in relation to your border. When you change the border, DeskProto will re-calculate the TP so that you now have a TP that rasters all the way across the entire 31.375" of the material...This is not what we want. For this example, I had to go into the Operaton Parameter screen and tell it not to cut the ambient. Otherwise it would ruin where I did my 2D clearing operations in PartWizard. Simply click the radio-button that says 'Ambient None'.

When your material is secured to the spoilboard, run the 2D clearing TPs that were calculated in PartWizard. Next, run the 3D file generated in DP. Then cut out the profile with the Profile TP done in PW. Take your time to think through where the Z-height needs to be for everything before you calculate your toolpaths!

Here's what I got:


Original Leaf

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Note Where 0,0 is in this pic...be sure to offset the X and Y when using DP for 3D and PW for 2D in the same material/project. Also take note that Ambient moves (outside of STL extents) have been eliminated. DP does a pretty good job of this, but sometimes goes over. Use the 2D vectors & drop Z depth in PW to clean up with AreaClear TP.

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2D Operations in PW

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DeskProto 3D Outline Toolpath (not used in this example...just wanted you to see!)

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Completed Carving...Note glueline...can see it but not feel it.

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Note that I almost always opt to do a 3D applique (the leaf) and then apply that to material that I previously cut in PartWizard. The applique method is much easier to finish than doing it this way for a number of reasons (You are forced to do an applique with MillWizard). I wanted to try this method...I tested it to a smaller scale in cheap pink foam before moving on to 15# $$$ign foam.

Well...that's my latest find. Hope some of you take advantage of the free download and have fun!

-Brady

paco
11-13-2004, 12:30 PM
WOW!!! Thanks for sharing this very detailed datas Brady! I've done something similar for a demo part using Mill Wizard and one of it's demo file and PW... Here how the result look like...

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That's actually a simulation in Insignia but I've done it in PW! Once the Mill Wizard file done in 2D offset, I run all the others PW files to get finished...

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I plan to use this "technic" (or another similar) to do some futur creations with the help of a 3D programer that we are looking to built a buisness relation from distance since he is in USA and I'm in Canada! By the way he is advertising in this forum since some weeks...
Again Brady, thanks for sharing!

fleinbach
11-13-2004, 01:27 PM
Brady; Paco

Great work.

These are the things I intend to do as soon as I get the time. It's great to see the results capable of certain software. I will be doing some similar work as soon as I get some free time to experiment. I have been overloaded the past 2 weeks and probably won't get a chance to dig into these things for a few more weeks.

I also ordered an indexer last week but won't be able to set it up until after January.

Brady Watson
11-13-2004, 02:52 PM
Frank,
We'll have to link up some time...maybe over the Holidays. Up here or down there.

Yeah, I just posted this to show some tricks with DeskProto. I imagine that others are out there wondering about alternatives to ArtCAM, Insignia, MillWizard, PartWizard etc. I noticed that there are not many conversations on this board for sharing techniques other than Corel and maybe AutoCAD from time to time (and mostly PartWizard) My thinking is, great 3D CAD or CAM software sells itself and doesn't need a salesman calling me on the phone or posting it on a message board. It should be the end-user that is raving about it...and that's what I wanted to do with this post. If I can help someone avoid wasting $500-$1000 on software with a cumbersome interface or false hopes or promises then, mission accomplished.

What I really like about DeskProto is ease of use paired up with capability. I think DP is a winner and will be buying a copy of it shortly.

-Brady

fleinbach
11-13-2004, 04:35 PM
Brady,

Sounds like a great idea. I'm fairly flexable other then the past two weeks. I was just not able to get ahead of a few deadlines but that should be better after this coming week.

I want to try out DeskProto when I get some time. Your right the end user is a companys best asset if they make a decent product. That's pretty obvious just reading this forum. The end user is Shopbots best salesmen. I never get tierd of talking about things that impress me and the Shopbot is the most impressing tool I've ever purchased.

fleinbach
11-13-2004, 06:01 PM
This is what had me tied up all week.

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Brady Watson
11-13-2004, 06:30 PM
Frank,
Pretty neat! Was that installed in someone's house?

-Brady

paco
11-13-2004, 06:46 PM
WOW!!
No difficulty figure how you were busy!

paco
11-13-2004, 07:04 PM
Brady-
Did you really needed an "outline" part for your project? I'm asking since I did'nt in mine...
Can you detailled this part please;"...Another GREAT feature that MillWizard lacks is the ability for DP to produce a 3D cut-out toolpath that traces the 3D geometry so that you can cut your part out...No more tissue paper left on the spoilboard and wasted time 'cutting air' or part extent ambient moves. Another little goodie is the ability to import 2D text/DXF designs and have DP carve it on the 3D geometry while following it's contours."
and
"I got the profile of the leaf (from photo) and brought that DXF into Rhino. Then I began laying out the borders. I exported the leaf profile and border vectors as DXF...and then pulled them into PartWizard to do 2D operations."
Just how to PERFECTLY align this "outline/profil" on a 3D relief?!?! Did you do it only from a "tracing"?
Hummm... until your answer I may test something...

fleinbach
11-13-2004, 08:17 PM
Brady,

Yes, this is in someones basement. Most new homes today have 9'ceilings making it possible for me to add this type of detail. We intend on finishing all carpentry work by Tuesday then the painter will begin. After that I will install all the uhpolstered parts including uhpolstered doors. I have 2 more under contract to be done by the end of January. 90% of what you see was cut on the Shopbot. There are approximatly 60 indevidual peices cut from3/4 and 1" MDF.

Brady Watson
11-13-2004, 08:19 PM
Yes...I traced it in TraceArt to get the basic shape and tightened it up in Rhino. You have to lay out the 2D vectors in relation to the STL before you bring the vectors into PW. Otherwise you would have no way to do an area clear/roughing without hogging out the material where the relief is to be machined in DP. I was going to run the 3D cut-out pass if my outside vector was too jagged...to my amazement it was dead on the money so I didn't need to run it. Also as stated, I tested the file in pink insulation foam before moving on to sign foam...I had a few details to work out before switching to sign foam.

I like how you have your material built up on your preview so that MW will go all the way down to your sign depth and blend into the design. I usually cut the 3D out in MW and paste it on the sign/whatever.

-Brady

paco
11-13-2004, 11:53 PM
In this case, it's actually Mill Wizard (the 3D relief) that decide the allowable size in the "sign" (since I did'nt create/edit the 3D relief); I decide to do the 3D relief 0.5" deep at the scalling setting... so that gave me the 2D size (without border added)... from that I design the sign in PW knowing that the 3D relief was this" X that" in 2D... so I base the center part of the "sign" from the 2D size of the relief... the "tricky" part is to get the lower left node position of the rectangle allowed for the relief to 2D offset the "Mill Wizard" file. The rest is what you can see in the simulation. If you know the exact depth of the relief, you can machined the relief from the same material that the rest of the other files... unless your relief need to be higher than the material surface/project. I'm quite happy of this "technic" because IT IS SIMPLE!!!
I plan to test this method with a relief from a pic (from UX_TIFF or something similar) making all the surounding completly white or black...
By "You have to lay out the 2D vectors in relation to the STL before you bring the vectors into PW.", do you mean having the 2D vector done in the same file and software than the 3D relief?

Brady Watson
11-14-2004, 12:04 AM
No..It doesn't have to be made in the same software...but you just have to figure out where everything needs to be so that both PW and whatever 3D CAM program you use are both starting at the exact same 0,0 point.

DP by default will set the extents to the 3D file extents...NOT the overall design (disc or whatever). That's why I added the part about offsetting the border by the (overall X and Y max of your design) - (actual max X and Max Y of 3D file). That way everything starts from the same 0,0 point...Otherwise things will not turn out well.

-Brady

paco
11-14-2004, 12:49 AM
Hummm... I'll have to test some of this...

What I particulay like about your way is that your design in PW was'nt restricted to a "rectangular 3D relief file" as mine; your leaf is quite fit within your PW file(s)/design... though this restriction depend on the overall finished design...

Brady Watson
11-14-2004, 11:59 AM
Paco,
There probably is a way to do all the 2D and 3D toolpaths in DeskProto...but I've only messed with it for a couple weeks.

-Brady

paco
11-14-2004, 12:23 PM
OK, thanks! I might investigated this software...
I was wondering if you've found a way to do your V-carving (assuming that you can do all fonts and 2D designs...) without the purchase of a $$$ software...?