Partwizard How To

[bjones]

Ok.. pretty new to partwizard at this point, but have a question.. can anyone tell me in a nutshell how to use partwizard to create a pocket hole type cut? meaning cutting along a vector where the right side of the cut is say 1/10th inch deep and the left side goes to half an inch deep. Looked for an obvious answer and didn't see one (I know, it's probably right in front of my face but i'm missing it)..

Thanks in advance!

[gene]

Brian.
Take a look at cabinetparstpro.com that Ryan Patterson has out . There is a free version and a pro version . Of course the pro has a lot more and is well worth the money . Try it out

[thewoodcrafter]

I'm no expert but I had to respond. I would not waste my money on Cabinet Parts Pro if I were you. Because I did and found it completely worthless for what I need. I think if you want different depths you have to tool path it with a different tool. Put 2 shapes together to make the shape and size of the pockets you want. Then profile each with your tool. The first tool set at 1/10th deep and the second at 1/2 deep. In the tool path tab pick area clearance path (second to the right). You can use the same tool but you need to edit the depth for each tool path.

[myxpykalix]

Just a thought and a theory here. It seems like you say what you want to do is machine along a vector starting at one depth and going lower at the end of the vector.
I have cut files for some designs where the bit ran along a vector plunging deeper to create this design. It seems that if you could take a file and isolate those lines of code you could scale them to your parameters because what you want is the gcode movement files.

[mzettl]

Brian,

If I understand you correctly, you are basically wanting to create a straight toolpath that starts at one depth and ends at another, essentially a slope. Jack is correct in that Part Wizard cannot do this. As long as you are talking about a straight line, editing the toolpath itself is not difficult.

First create the path that you want in Part Wizard. Generate the toolpath (the ShopBot Part File with the .sbp extension). Open the .sbp file with the ShopBot Editor. You should be able to find the line of code where the path you wish to edit begins. There will be a J2 or M2 move followed by a MZ move to plunge the bit to the starting depth that you defined in Part Wizard. Then there will be an M2 move to the end point of the vector. If you change this line to an M3 move, adding the Z depth that you want at the end of the path, you will achieve the desired result.

For example, say I wanted path to start at (1,1) and end at (12,12) starting at a depth of .25" and ending at a depth of .75." The intitial code as generated by Part Wizard might be something like:

J2 1,1
MZ -0.25
M2 12,12

You would change this to read:

J2 1,1
MZ -.0.25
M3 12,12,-0.75

Just be sure that you have a comma or a space between the command and the first parameter, and that each parameter is separated by a comma.

If it is a very simple path, just a single line or a small number of single lines that you are wanting to cut, you can just program it directly with the ShopBot Editor, and forego Part Wizard all together.

If it's a curved path, that is a whole different story, as you would have to program a different Z move for each different XY move, potentially thousands, and as far as I know there is no quick and easy way to do that . Maybe some of the more experienced programmers that frequent the forums, like Paco or Bill Young, know of some technique that would be usefull in that situation, but that is usually where 3D CAD/CAM software comes into play.

Hope this helps,

Matt

[gene]

Roger
What type of buisness do you do with your bot?
What type of products do you produce and do you maybe have this program mixed up with cabinetpro.com ? I had cabinetpro and you are right . in my opinion it was not very helpful to me . What do you think about the kcdw cabinet software package shopbot is offering.

[andre]

Spend the money and buy a pocket hole cutter

[andre]

an ammendment
if you want to cut pocket holes for cabinetry you need a pilot hole any way. I am waiting for my shop bot to arrive and never considered doing my pocket holes on it. I use a porter cable production cutter. very efficient. Although I am going to try Matts method for doing other interesting things.
I cant wait to cut my cabinet parts on my new CNC!

[harryball]

"if you want to cut pocket holes for cabinetry you need a pilot hole any way"

Andre, I thought the same thing and have a kreg system. I have Cabinet Parts Pro and for my casual cabinet making needs it does great. I used self drilling washer head screws and have assembled 2 entertainment systems and many cabinet bases out of both particle board and plywood by just running the screw in the pocket cut on the bot with a 3/8" bit. I was skeptical at first, but it works well.

I suggest trying some test cuts and assembly like I did first to see if it works in your material.

opps, hit the wrong button, EDIT:
On the original topic the easiest way with PW that I can think of is to hand code the lines. Put a rectangle in and pocket with with a cutting depth of 0. This will make finding the move commands with 0 cut depth quick in the editor. Simply make your edits there and save.

Robert

[thewoodcrafter]

Gene,
I have a cabinet shop. We do about 1 kitchen a week.
I got sucked into the FREE copy of CabinetPro that expired before I finished setting up the 2-3 dozen setup screens. Then he stopped supporting ShopBot anyway.
Never got it up and running.
Then I bought CabinetPartsPro. In 5 mins I knew it could not keep up with my production and was not for me. I don't have any use for software that I have to completely change the way I sell and build my cabinets in order to use it.
I build with 50% thick blind dados and from several types and thicknesses of material. CabinetPartsPro will not do any of that. Just butt joints. One material type. If I wanted to build like that I can do that faster on my table saw and line boring machine.
I looked at KCDW and it seems like it would fit the bill BUT at $11,500 I would rather not fill the bill.
And pocket holes! I have a Kreg bench top machine. It will cut pockets as fast as I can pull the lever, way faster than a ShopBot and at the correct size and angle.
Locating them with a pilot hole will not work. The panel is face down on the Kreg machine so you can't see where the pilot hole is.
I am waited for Patrick Toomey's software. If it can do what his website says it will do that will be the hot ticket.
I already design in e-cabinets.

Andre, what are you going to use for software to cut out your cabinet boxes? I have a new un-used copy of CabinetPartPro if you want to give that a shot.

[bjones]

Thanks for the replies everyone.. To the smart alec that told me to 'spend the money on a pocket hole cutter', too late, have one but that's not what I need here
I was just using a pocket hole to describe what kind of cut I needed so the most people would understand me as possible


The REAL project is fluted columns. Customer needs 3 flutes in a cherry board 3/8 inch wide.. So, easy to do with a 3/8 ball mill and simple partwizard work. HOWEVER, the customer wants a gradual slope in and out of the flute instead of a straight plunge and cut.. similar to how i've seen pocket holes done. Essentially, lets say I have to cut a 14 inch flute 3/8 inch deep at center.. I want to start at z Zero (top of material), and go down to 3/8 depth over the course of the first and last 1.5 inches of the flute.

I really did think this would be a simple operation with the ol' SB.. Vcarving seems to do it all the time.

Thanks for the help all.

[bill.young]

Brian,

Look in the Tools menu in the ShopBot software for the "Forney Fluter"...I think it will do just what you want to do.

Bill

[garyb]

Brian, you can use a v-carve techique.
draw your 2 lines 3/8 apart at the end draw them coming to a point over say 3/4 then toolpath as center line v-carve but use a 3/8 ball instead
and you will have it

[beacon14]

it does not get much more simple than this

J3,0,0,1
J3,0,0,0
J3,1.5,0,-.375
JX,12.5
J3,14,0,0
JZ,1

Z zero to the top of the material
You can change the actual X and Y values to correspond to the placement of the flutes on your material or begin at the "bottom" of the flute and run the above using 2D offset.

This can easily be embellished to cut the 3 flutes at the proper spacing.

To answer your question this could be done in PW but with the amount of editing you would have to do to the resulting file it's easier to just write it from scratch with something this simple. If you are not familiar with writing your own ShopBot code this is a nice basic starter project.

[garyb]

Bill, last time I looked at the forney fluter (many moons ago) it was plunge cut at the start an finish of the flute, has it changed?

[bill.young]

Gary,
I can't remember when it was added but you can now specify entry and exit ramps if you want then.


Brian,
David (and Matt above) really gave the best advice thought...writing the file "manually" will give you a better handle on how part files work and this application would be a nice simple one to start with.

One thing that the Forney Fluter would do for you is calculate the spacing...it saves the step of figuring out how to get the "flats" the correct width on the inside and outside flutes. It also calculates the plunge depth if you're using a ballnose bit so that you can get a specific width groove.

Bill

[andre]

Roger thanks for the offer

I am waiting delivery of my prs alpha and manage d to get a full version of Cabinet parts pro from Ryan to try. I am finding it easier to design from scratch in part wizard. It lets me be in total control of the parts I am making. I buil d custom cabinets like alot of shops and have been doing so by hand from scratch for 7 years and find it difficult and a bit disconcerting to hand over design and math to a software program that may or may not do exactly what I want. I like partwizard because I can visualize every dado placement and size of parts.
As far as pocket holes who knows which is better.
I like my method with a dedicated machine, not the kreg but a porter cable production cutter it works slick with the low angle pocket and pilot hole you have virtually no slip when assembling. I used the kreg for years and became so frustrated with the slip factor.
And Brian I thought you meant pocket hole. I am not familiar with what you meant by pocketing, although i understand what you meant now.

[andre]

Roger
1 kitchen a week?!
You must have several large builders you work with. I find contractors frustrating to work with, maybe my personality. Whats your secret for such volume?

[gene]

Roger
I feeel your pain, I too purchased cabinet pro and did not like it at the least, cabinetPARTSpro did ok for me but i still find myself cutting alot of my box parts on a slide table saw. I too do about 1 to 1.5 sets per week and still mix in smaller jobs also . I do alot of pocket holes for face frames on a pheumatic bench kreg machine , It does a good , fast job and i am happy with it. I have been looking at the e cabinet software but it will only work with the thernowood machine. If things pick up like they have been i probably will order a thermowood 5x10 . What type of software is patrick T comming out with? This may be something beneficial for me as well.

[thewoodcrafter]

Andre,
I do very little work for builders, They want CHEAP and I don't like working for free. Most of my customers are owner-builders or remodels.
I am now using Part Wizard also. Very time consuming but control over everything.

Gene,
Patrick Toomey is working on software that will take the output list from several different cabinet programs like e-cabinets and KCDW and generate a nest for all the parts and then output ShopBot code.
Look at http://www.flexcabs.com
It should be a great tool for cabinet shops that can't pay the $12,000 for a full blown cabinet/design program with CNC output.

[andre]

Roger

How long have you been in business?
What type of advertising do you do if you don't mind me asking. I'm always looking for ways to increase business. Do you do your own installs?
I hope I'm not being too forward.
I agree with you on contractors they want a deal and don't appriciate authentic quality.

[gigdog]

How the heck do I find PartWizard? I've got PartWorks and Partworks 3D and ShopBot3 but I can't find PartWizard! I'm I missing something?

[pete]

Raymond

Partworks and Partworks3d replaces Part Wizard when ordering new ShopBots now - not exactly sure when they switched over - a few months ago I believe. So, you must have a fairly new machine.

Those are all design software packages and they generate the toolpath codes that the machines use to cut material.

ShopBot3 is the control software for the ShopBot machine and uses the machine code mentioned above.

Pete

[gigdog]

Thanks Peter:
Actually I don't have my machine yet. It's supposed to be ready the 16th of this month. I took the 2 day class and have my software but still feel a sizable learing curve. I've attempted 3 times to design a vacuum board file like the one ShopBot has on their demo tool but can't seem to get is spaced just right. Do you know if I should design it using a polyline or rectangle? I've tried both ways and can't get it right. Also, is there a simpler way to draw it without having to struggle with each and every vector? Maybe some way to draw one square and duplicate it?

[andyb]

Raymond,
I use VCarve Pro but Partsworks is the same program. You can use the "Copy vector in linear or circular array" icon to copy the vector with several nice options including spacing between the vectors. Also, you can select a vector and hold down the CTRL key then drag and drop the vector to copy it.

Andy B.

[gigdog]

Andy:
Thanks for the info. and I hate to sound so stupid but how do you "Copy vector in linear or circular array"?

[gigdog]

Andy:
I think I found it. I've been at this all day. Maybe it's time to take a break when everything begins to run together!!!