Grayscale - to - 3D capabilities...

[john_l]

I am interested in hearing form anyone who has implemented the grayscale to 3D capabilities of photoVcarve. I would like to know how you actually did it, step by step if possible and what kind of file did you start with. A picture of the outcome would be great.

I do not yet own photoVcarve but, based on the ability to convert any grayscale image, if its quick and easy, I may be buying it right away.

I may not be the sharpest bit in the box but my take on it would be... Start with any photograph file (.jpg .bmp .tiff, etc) and convert it to a grayscale using a photo or bitmap editor program. Then I would assume the photoVcarve software has a way to import the greyscale (what dimentional size, file size, pixel, or other requirements to import?). I would anticipate that I would then be able to adjust some parameters and end up with a cuttable 3D (or is it 2.5D?) shopbot file? Simplicity and stability are the key requirements for me to be able to make any money with this in my application here. Thanks for any help.

[edcoleman]

John:

The vectric software (and support) is great. I've not used photo-vcarve in particular, but use their VCarve Pro extensively. If you go to the following site:

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/pvc/pvc_index.htm

there are two links near the bottom of the page - one is a video presentation ("Quick Video Presentation") of file conversion, the other is a web page with a step by step written description ("The PhotoVcarve Process").

-Ed

[Brady Watson]

John,
Before you spend any money, let me clue you in on a few points...You can (right now) use the BMP converter in SB3 by typing in the FC command and choosing the file type from the drop down. ShopBot was the 1st to have this ability in the CNC world long before it was in vogue. Play around in the converter and see how it works for you. All the CAM packages out there that do this basically do the same thing as the converter, although they do give you a better toolpath preview. Of all of the packages that do this, Vectric's is the best.

Regardless of the software that you use to generate a 3D file, the results are often less than desireable, unless you realize just what the software can and cannot do for you. 1st of all, the photo needs to be 'clean', with the subject prominent in the foreground and sharp. The background should not be 'busy' and there should be a good deal of contrast between the subject and the background. Things like black haired dogs and the like usually don't fair that well with this process as there really isn't a lot of contrast on the subject for it to turn out. You may have to doctor the photo in a photo editor to get the desired result.

The other thing that goes into the 'common misnomer' category is the fact that, aside from low level reliefs (typically less than .25" thick), you are not going to get a good realistic relief from a photo. For instance, a photo of a '57 Chevy will not give you a file that looks like a 3D '57 Chevy when viewed from an angle. It will look decent when viewing dead-on from the front, but a garbled mess from the side.

I'm pretty sure that Vectric offers a demo AND tutorials on how to get the most out of their package. If you visit their site, you can browse the examples in their forum, download a trial version and get your questions asked from the guys @ Vectric.

-B

[rookie432]

John,

Brady is correct about this. However there is a way to get 3d milling capabilities out of PhotoVee Carve. The Rub is that you have to import a 3d model that has been converted to greyscale. Therefore you have to have a 3d model first. Now with the recent availabilty of ready made 3d models you don't necessarily need modelling software ...but you will need a way to greyscale that model before bringing it into PVC for milling. The truth is there are excllent packages already available fairly inexpensively to circumvent these issues. I would start at vector art 3d's website. They have a piece of software that will mill their models. Next I would chec vectric's website and look at their cut3d program. For 3d your money is better spent there.
Brady's really right in the fact that you're not going find an inexpensive piece of software available yet that will take a photo and do real 3d (in the terms you may be looking for.)

Hope this helps
Bill

[knedert]

John:
Here's a finished example of a portrait we did for an urn, using the BMP converter that Brady was telling you about. I did play with the grayscale a bit in Photoshop first, and we cut a few sectional testers of just the eyes, out of MDF. Then, once we felt that we had achieved the likeness, we cut it out of signfoam. The lady's family was quite pleased.
So, the potential is there with the software you (most likely) already have.
4239
Hope that helps.

[danhamm]

Vetric's Photovcarve does not use 3d images it is a raster engraving package very similar to the one Brady explained..using..bitmap images...the diff being the visual's and many more enhancements it it..there 3d package is called Cut3d..and is also excellent..

[tony_mac]

Hi John,

PhotoVCarve is being used for Grayscale machining but as some of the others have already mentioned the end results depend very much on the image file. The key feature in PhotoVCarve is the toolpath simulation preview that shows you exactly what the finish machined piece will look like without having to actually run the toolpaths on the machine. (I don’t think the bmp converter has a preview mode?).

The Groove Machining strategy in PhotoVCarve was developed to remove the ambiguity caused by highlights and shadows in an image, and create more reliable results for most images.


4240

It’s also worth noting that PhotoVCarve does a great job of machining Lithophanes – back lit 3D photographs - as shown in the image below.


4241

I would recommend downloading the Free Trial version (http://www.vectric.com) that will let you machine your own photographs. The results from the Trial version will be watermarked but let you see exactly what can be achieved from the software.

Important points to remember are that shadows and highlights will have a big impact on the machined piece because the software (all of them) simply interpolates a 3D height from the colors in the image, typically with white being high and black low. Therefore, regions in shadow will be lower than those being well lit. PhotoVCarve will work with both colour and grayscale images. It is possible use software such as PhotoShop (as Rose mentioned) to touch-up the photographs, but this is quite a challenge for most people.

The ‘Holy Grail’ is to automatically convert all photographs into realistic 3D toolpaths, but the problem is that 2D photo images simply don’t contain sufficient information to do this (the brain makes many assumptions that cannot be recognized by the software).

I hope this makes sense and helps,

Tony

[lto]

The above carving in corian was done from a picture off the clinic's website, no photo editing, awesome results using Photo Vcarve. Clinic for Special Children, http://www.clinicforspecialchildren.org/.


Better photos later..................

[lto]

Lithophane Photos..............
http://picasaweb.google.com/obdata/ClinicLithophane

Color is all the effect of backlighting with three 12 volt under cabinet lights.

[rookie432]

I forgot that I did find this site a while ago.
"Create" 3D models from images software. Seemed interesting and if it works you have solved half your battle in getting 3d models into the computer.

For those interested
http://www.3dsom.com/index.html

Bill

[john_l]

Wow, what a response! Thanks. I am about to download the software trial and see what I can get done playing with it. I will also experiment with the FC command. 3Dsom might hit the budget a little hard right now but that also looks very promising. A trial wouldnt hurt a thing and I will do that one too. Thanks again to all of you for your time by the way. I am very new to all of this and will likely be a pest for a while.

[jay_p]

Once again I am amazed at the timing of the forum. It is almost eerie. I have been meaning to figure out how to convert bitmapped black and white images into something that can be cut as a 2.5D file for printmaking, and here is Brady with the answer. I have played around with ArtCam, but really the ShopBot BMP converter is very easy. Thanks.

Jay

[hershberger]

Where do you get ball nosed 16th inch bits?

[zeykr]

Contact Gary at www.beckwithdecor.com (http://www.beckwithdecor.com), he has some new long reach tapered 1/16th cutters.

[jsfrost]

I have planned for years to do samples of the same photo using several of the available greyscale converters. It would be nice to know that brand X at price A is or is not significantly that brand Y at price B.

Someday, but if someone wants to beat me to it...

[jseiler]

for lithophanes tiny bits, I use

http://www.carbideselect.com/

They used to be procarbide. I've used a variety of their bits and so far, so good. I'm sure they aren't as good as onsrud and other premium makers, but they are 1/5 the price. These smaller bits require a 1/8 to 1/4 sleeve. My machine is older with slower feeds, so I don't break bits. Others with faster machines might want to consider tapered bit like the ones above.

For larger litho bits, I use mlsc's roudn nose bits (min diameter 1/8") 1/4" shank. Not bad 9 bux each.

John

[paul_z]

I almost ordered from the carbide select web site. Two things made me stop. First, I couldn't find a street address in case there was a problem and the checkout page wasn't a secure page. The prices were very low but the risk seemed high. Has anyone else dealt with them? Any bad experiences?

Paul Z

[Mike Windsor]

Paul : I just recieved an order from Pro carbide www.carbideselect.com (http://www.carbideselect.com) . As far as check out goes it is done through Paypal so it is secure when you get to the payment part. There was a small problem with my order . ( they had sent one bit out of 4 that was the wrong one ). I emailed the company , and recieved a prompt and satisfactory resolution to the problem within hours of my complaint . ---Better service than some bricks and mortar stores that I have dealt with . I haven't tried the bits yet , but visually they look well made . If you happen to be ordering from Canada ask for postal mail as a shipping option , as the UPS brokerage fee on a few bits will be an additional $40-$70 bucks at your end when the UPS guy delivers them . Postal mail brokerage is about $5-$10 , and half the time they don't bother charging .