Rhino vs "High End" CAD (PRO-E, UG, SolidWorks etc)

[mpr.designs@gmail.com]

I have searched the board, and was wondering if anybody has used these type of "high end" systems AND Rhino. As a Mech Eng, I have used the systems I mentioned in the title of the thread. I currently have access to SolidWorks. Does Rhino bring anything to the table that these do not? It seems more 'artsy' (if that is a word?). And that may be what I'm looking for. I want to be able to do work like you see at Gene Marshall's web site. I can't afford ArtCam right now. Just wondering if SolidWorks will get me there (I have MillWizard), or if Rhino brings anything new/better to the table?
Thanks!

[Brady Watson]

Matt,
Generally speaking, most of the 3D work that is done by botters is artistic in nature. For the most part, items produced are decorative and don't have too many size/precision constraints upon them. There are a lot of neat features in Rhino that I use to do things that you can do in ArtCam, like rail sweeps, turnings, extruding etc. You can also independently scale the Z down to squash a relief to fit your material. I like Rhino and think it is a great program for the money. MillWizard is also a good program with certain limitations. You only have the option of rastering back and forth when machining a 3D object. Profile passes and cutout passes have to be created in another program, like PartWizard and can be tricky to get everything lined up.

Solidworks and Pro-E are incredible programs, but they are really geared towards an engineering mindset. That is of course, not to say that you couldn't do what you can do in Rhino if you are fluent enough in the program. I don't have either of these programs, nor do I use them so I cannot really say if they are a good fit or not. I do know that Rhino handles file formats that you are most likely to encounter for artsy 3D things, like 3DS, STL, OBJ etc.

Just about everyone that wants to get into the 3D game, is short on $...myself included. I have done some pretty neat things with just Rhino and MillWizard. All of them decorative.

I suppose the question you should answer is, what are you planning on making exactly?

-Brady

[mpr.designs@gmail.com]

Brady,
Thanks for the info. I am in the process of getting my bot up and going. I've had it for a couple of months now, and I still have yet to get it all put together - ugh - just really strapped for time this summer. Anyway - I'm hopeful to be running by the end of this month. What do I want to cut/do? Good question. As a former finish carpenter, but now a mech eng with some metal work cam experience, I have a desire make some 3D ornamental stuff. I'm also looking to do some 2D/2.5D stuff. I basically just want to do a lot of experimenting, making prototypes, and probe the market here in Utah and see where it takes me.
SolidWorks deals well with STL files, but does not import 3DS or OBJ without converters. Like you said, it is geared toward engineering and those type of constraints. But I can do some nifty thigns in SWX (solidworks). We'll see where it gets me. My main inquiry is wondering if Rhino should be on my short term shopping list.

Thanks for the reply.

Just curious. I see that you are fairly active on this forum. What do you do with your bot? Where are you located, and how is business?

Thanks again.

Matt

[Brady Watson]

Matt,
I am located in Soutern NJ near Philadelphia. I use my machine to suppliment my fabrication business. I have both a SB router and a SB plasma cutter. I do everything from make brackets for race cars, metal furniture and ornamental designs on my plasma cutter. Most of my work is on the mill. I do 2D shape cutting in just about anything. Gingerbread, acrylic parts, furniture parts & shelving, prototype parts etc. I also cut out signs for a few guys near me that don't have a CNC.

On the 3D side of things I haven't sold a lot of pieces, but mainly appliques for furniture and a few simple molds. I did a run of 200' of custom molding not too long ago. I reverse-engineered/digitized some ornamental items using the SB probe and my Roland 3D scanner. I have yet to find the 3D thing that I can repeatably sell and make money on. Moldmaking makes the most sense in my opinion, and my recent post on Rayite 100 shows one material that would be good as a mold master or master part. I am currently working on some mahogany CD racks with some relief carvings I generated in Rhino for a Philly radio station. I will be done them towards the end of this month. (I think there is a pic of the project on the recent Trupan post)

I have found that you really have to SELL the 3D work because most people really don't know what is possible. Cut out some really good clean samples and take them around to different shops. There are a few shops near me that have a CNC but can only dream of doing things on their big Komo that I can do on my bot. You have to cut enough 3D to know what you can/can't do & if you will get beat up on it or not. The 3D stuff takes some time to learn how to do well. Give yourself a minimum of 1yr before selling 3D. You really have to invest the time with the 3D software once you get it to learn how to do what you want it to do (CAD & CAM)...You have to learn to not only think in 3D, but also think in 3D machining. It's not always WYSIWYG.

Business is up and down for me, although I am having a good month now. Since I am diversified doing wood, plastic and metal, it is sometimes overwhelming maintaining all the equipment and seting up and taking down from one operation to the next. One day I am TIG welding a broken ambulance gurney for a local shop, and the next I am machining acrylic for a stereo shop. Don't quit your day job until you get too busy to go in...It takes a LOT to run your own show. Start saving!

You can see a few things at my website: http://www.ibild.com

Hope that helps,
-Brady

[stevem]

Matt, Rhino is the best bang for the buck in 3d design software.

Although I dabble in artistic work for fun, all my paying work is making moulded plastic products. I use Rhino to design the products and to design the moulds. Rhino is very easy to learn and the user interface is very similar to AutoCad. Tool paths are generated in VisualMill.

As an aside, I’ve found that most people are not willing to pay what it actually costs to produce an artistic 3D product @ $60.00 per hour. I think you have to become famous before making real money doing this kind of work (hint: get yourself a TV show. You don’t even have to be competent, just be on TV).

[Brady Watson]

LOL!

I believe you may be right about the TV part!

-Brady

[ron brown]

I'll throw in my view Rhino is a great program too. I have yet to find a part Rhino cannot model.

I will also state find a program that will do whatever you need and learn it. It takes a good bit of time to switch programs.

I have been designing in Rhino and using Rhino to generate tool paths. I then take the tool paths to Vector for order and direction.

Ron

[johnny_s]

Someone asked a similar question about solidworks and rhino, don't know if it was you, but as I said there, if could start over, I would use solidworks because of its parametric ability, but I am too set with rhino. Like Ron just said, I have yet to find a part that Rhino cannot model. If you are doing the decorative thing, and not tight toleranced molds and stuff, that require draft angles and the like; or jobs that you might want to change sized and hole locations frequently, then use just use Rhino.

I find that I sometimes use SolidWorks when i am doing something that I know I will need to tweak to perfection. This is more of a bi-annual event though. Also, Rhino is a powerful conversion tool. Many times, if you are doing decorative work, you need to deal with someone's 2-d artwork, like from adobe illustrator or corel. Rhino can import/export to these programs and many more. A few times I have worked with engineers that use Pro E or Solid Works, and they cant get their own art departments logos into their cad system. I use Rhino to convert to a format they can pull in.

Another thing, and I don't work for MadCam either, but if you use that program, you can do your modeling and toolpathing all from Rhino.

[daniel_carr]

> I can't afford ArtCam right now.

Matt,
VS3D has similar capabilities to ArtCam and is currently priced at $975. VS3D can do all the artistic sculpting, image embossing, 3D carving, etc., and it outputs ShopBot files, G-Code tool paths, etc.