DXF to Shopbot

[mnrite@yahoo.com]

Could someone give me a brief explanation of getting a dxf to shopbot code? At work I draw all my parts in AutoCad, including nesting the parts on 4x8 sheets, then import the dxf into MasterCam and apply the toolpaths. I have the CD from shopbot but can't see how to import a dxf, Where do I start Parts Wizard or the Operation software?

[billp]

Mike,
Usually it's as simple as choosing the "FC"( file convert) command when you open your Shopbot software, and then telling the program which .dxf file you want to convert into a .sbp file.
Another option is to use the Part Wizard program to originate your file, and then save the completed toolpath right from PW itself. Once you get used to the drawing tools in PW you could probably bypass the Autocad/Mastercam steps. If your drawing is beyond the scope of PW you can still import it into PW from Autocad to do the conversion to a cut file, ( and this gives you the benefit of a preview of your file as well).....

[mnrite@yahoo.com]

Thanks Bill

I don't want to use mastercam at home when I get my shopbot. But I do want to take the same DXF and import it to Part Wizard to do the conversion to a cut file. I couldn't see how to do that import when I looked at the Part Wizard demo?

Thanks
Mike

[mnrite@yahoo.com]

I just looked at the demo again, When it opens, I click FILE, IMPORT and "vector data" is greyed out.
Maybe the import feature is not available on the demo?

Thanks
Mike

[billp]

Mike,
I don't have a demo version of the program so I can't help you there. It might be worth a call to Shopbot and see if that's a normal occurence. I usually hit the icon on the left side of the page which says "import vector data" and I can then open most vector file formats. It would seem to me that it could save you a LOT of duplication of effort if you eliminate the Mastercam step in your process.

[btk]

Mike,

The DXF converter comes with the Shopbot
Controller software (perhaps also with Part Wizard),
however the controller software is down-loadable and
has an hpgl, dxf and tif converter located in the
/bin subdirectory.
I beleive the dxf program is called
UX_DXF.exe.
You can run these from the Dos prompt and
they will ask you for a file name to convert,
or you can run the FC command from within
the Shopbot control software (not Partwizard) and depending on the file extension, it will start up
the appropriate converter.

-BTK

[btk]

Mike,

.......FYI, I do not beleive that the demo version of the parts wizard lets you import dxf files (or save
files for that matter). However you can use
the dxf converter that comes with controlller software to create your toolpaths directly
from the dxf that you create with AutoCad.
However you will have to make the offsets for the
tool width's etc, before converting, as you will not be able to massage the file.

BTK

[gerald_d]

For someone that is proficient in AutoCad and MasterCam, the SB converter will fall far short of their expectations. The SB converter makes the SB cut in exactly the same sequence that one drew the AutoCAD lines, and that is not efficient.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the PW converter is strictly 2D. Okay for thin sheets, but not nearly the power of MasterCam.

Mike, I can see that you will be making your .sbp cut files at work for a while.

[Brady Watson]

I could never understand why anyone would want to convert a DXF to a toolpath. What is the advantage of doing this?

My thought is, you have very little control over the outcome & I'd prefer to see the parts/TP in relation to the material in PW or Vector.

Why would you want to do this...ever?

Yes Gerald, 2D only.

-Brady

[btk]

Brady,

The converter is Quick/Useful when creating simple 2-D cutouts from a DXF without giving too much thought or having to go into additional programs.
Essentially, if you are cutting 2-D shapes along the Vectors, then I do not think PW or Vector will add that much to the sbp file.



Also it has been useful on occasion when I am on a computer that is not running CAD/CAM software and want to view a DXF file. You can use the DXF converter and preview the cut in less than a minute as opposed to transfering to another computer, opening PW/AutoCad, etc.



BTK

[ron brown]

"I could never understand why anyone would want to convert a DXF to a toolpath. What is the advantage of doing this?"


4486

"Why would you want to do this...ever?"

Why crawl when you can walk?

Ron

[mnrite@yahoo.com]

So,when I get my ShopBot and the full software can I use a "similar" process as I do at work, understanding that MasterCam is a much more advanced program, create a DXF in AutoCad, import into Parts Wizard and apply toolpaths, export to ShopBot code. Or will I need additional software (masterCam,enroute etc.)

Thanks
Mike

[billp]

Mike,
With the software arsenal you currently now have at your disposal, you should not need anything more, UNTIL you decide to try some 3D work. And even then I believe you can generate files with Autocad/Mastercam but it may involve a few extra steps ( although I haven't seen "Mastercam ART"in action yet...)

[mnrite@yahoo.com]

Bill, I should have explained better. I hope to buy a shopbot to work with part time at first but then quit my job and use the Bot for my own company. At that point I will have my autocad but will loose the company mastercam. Will autocad and parts wizard be enough?

Thanks
Mike

[fleinbach]

Mike

Autocad and Parts Wizard are all you need to make and cut lots of 2D files. There are lots of more expensive programs that would give you more flexibility in cut paths but Parts Wizard, though missing some features of the higher cost software, will work very well.

[andrewm]

I havent't played with the DXF converter. Does it create 3d paths of 3D vectors in the DXF?

[Keith (Unregistered Guest)]

I have been reading some of these threads and it has generated one big question. Can I have a complex 3d surface file in Mastercam and post it out (using Mastercam Toolpath capability) to G-code that shopbot will read? I am interested in purchasing a shopbot and have Mastercam Mill III. I will be maching intricate designs on wood and plastic, not only 2D but sculpted-looking 3D shapes.

[paco]

Keith,

does'nt MasterCAM have a post for SBP file?

Maybe you can get the ART add-on for this purpose...?

[Keith2 (Unregistered Guest)]

Paco,

I'm not sure - perhaps Mastercam does have a post - I'll have to look. I guess my big question is: If I have Mastercam Art, can I post out something and cut it on the Shopbot. The reason I ask is because some machines are limited to the file size of G-code (these toolpaths would be huge), some machines can't move the same speed in Z than it does in X and Y, etc. I know they seem like basic questions, but I want to make sure before I invest in a machine. Thanks again.

Oh, and I had to change my username - thanks

[paco]

Keith(2),

have a look at what some fellow Botters say about big... large... huge files (http://forum.artcam.com/viewtopic.php?t=1363).

Still, your question is relevant.

...know that posts are editable to suit your needs (I hope it's the case with MasterCAM...); I've just edit my ArtCAM shopbot(arcs)(inches) post to include the control of the router/spindle...

[billp]

Keith 1 & 2,
Some of us already do huge files in 3D so I doubt you would have a problem running yours through the 'Bot. Simplest test would be to;
1.)Generate such a file through either Mastercam or MC ART
2). Download Shopbot's control software off the web page
3). Run the file through the previewer and see what happens...This also would give you a handle on HOW the process would work if you went through with the purchase.

[lto]

Paco,

" I've just edit my ArtCAM shopbot(arcs)(inches) post to include the control of the router/spindle..."

Have I read correctly that you edited this file to control the router? Any how to's for the less literate? Is there any way to have the spindle start automaticly?

Thanks

[paco]

LTO,

assuming that the tool is wired so; yes.

You probably already know how to type in the lines of code to do so... I've just add some line to the "Shopbot-inch_arc.CON" (which is the post file) to input thoses lines automaticaly so I don't have to bother anymore about it.

My modifications output this:

---
'Turning router ON
SO,1,1
PAUSE,2
'
MS,1.2,1.5
JZ,2.000000
J2,0.000000,0.000000
J3,9.316484,9.358175,0.250000
...
J3,9.293621,9.447902,0.250000
J3,0.000000,0.000000,2.000000
JZ,2.000000
J2,0.000000,0.000000
'
'Turning router OFF
SO,1,0
---

It's only adding thoses "control lines" to the moves and jogs file... I still have the original handy just in case.

As you can see, I control a router here (the PAUSE is too short for a spindle I believe). I could have included anything else to the file (like a personnal signature for the file)... one can make as much post as he need...

I'd be glad to share the post with you (all); assuming that I'm allowed to do so... or I'll teach how to do it! One can learn more about editing the ArtCAM posts from this document (ftp://mwiz:turnitout@arrow.delcam.com/post_manv4.exe).

Let me know if you need more infos...

[paco]

Did I mentioned it work with PW too...

[paco]

One more word of caution; work on copy... keep the original file handy when you modify sensitive/precious file(s).

[jerry]

Be careful here modifing the post processor files.

These files are checksum and may not load the next time you start PW. Changes will work if they are made to the post files after PW has started.

Here is the notice at the bottom of the file

; Delcam Check Sum xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
;This file has been locked your ArtCAM product may not work if you edit this file

[Brady Watson]

You cannot modify the post in PW. You may want to try using the Header Writer in SB3 to accomplish the same thing.

-Brady

[cabindoors]

Does anyone know if a Shopbot Code (.sbp) to (.dxf) code is available? I seemed to have read about this at one time but cannot find the thread now.

It would be a tremendous help to be able to edit a 3d (.sbp) file in this way.

Thanks!

[paco]

Jerry,

I must be honest; I really don't know what is a "checksum"... when I purchase Insignia, one of my questions was "Can I change the post so the tool would home elsewhere?" The reseller rep told me "Yes and you can change whatever you wish about it... but be carefull and ask me if you need help about it..."

Changes will partialy take effect the next time you'll start "ArtCAM software"; it's name in the posts choice...


4487
(see, I have the original handy!)

wont appear correctly if you don't restart the software. The rest will take effect at the moment of the post file saving.

I am sometime a little sarcastic about thing like "don't do this and that"... here another one of my mods...

---
; Delcam Check Sum ###thiswasaverylongnumberhere###
;This file has been locked your ArtCAM product may not work if you edit this file
;This file has been edited... don't be scared, try yourself to better suit your needs and wishes!!!
---

Brady,

ArtCAM software (Part Wizard included) don't have post editor... any text editor will do the job...

The header writer is still a VERY USEFULL utility... for other purposes. For something
one need to enter EACH time he post a file; why not change the post?!

All,

the part I changed on my post are ONLY the header and the FOOTER part; I did'nt change anything about how the post process the toolpath...

People who are not familiar with such file editing MUST BE CAREFULL in that they should work on copy of the original file(s) so messing up a file while testing won't be too dramatic... and that's true for any file in fact!

I hope I did'nt scared someone while I suggest a way to ease one life?! If someone wish to give it a try, I'll be gald to mail it and gives instructions... just ask... that all needed!

;-)

[jsfrost]

Thanks Paco,

Manually adding the SO,1,1 to the file has been a major irritation to me, but I've been too lazy to look for the answer. Toniight we fix it.

Jim

[jerry]

Tom,

Under File main menu there is a Conversions menu item. Click it and choose a sbp file then start the converter and one of the choices is to save the sbp file as dxf.

---jerry

[Brady Watson]

Paco & Others,
You CANNOT modify any of the posts for PW and expect them to show up or work. I've been down this road before back when I 1st got my plasma bot. DelCAM has to change it and release a new version. Perhaps this is something to ask of Shopbot to put in the next release, or at least try to get a patch created to accomodate the new post(s).

I don't really care personally, because being a control freak...I'll turn my own router on and off, thank you very much.

-Brady

[paco]

Brady,

I hope I did'nt offended...

All,

looks like Brady is right about PW... sorry... When I look at it and test it, I've made changes while the software was loaded (copy/pasted the file in folder)... that's why it worked (because it really did)... look like whenever one make changes then restart PW it simply ignore the modified post(s)...

As for Insignia and PRO owners; IT REALLY worked. Probably that it work for other CAD/CAM packages too... I hope!

Non-editable post(s) are'nt very pratical... make me wonder why SB have done it yet...

Sorry again to PW users for confusion...

[Brady Watson]

Not offended at all, Paco


Just wanted to save others the grief of trying!

Yes, MillWizard, Insignia & Pro allow you to change the post. However, PW does not.

-Brady

[paco]

Ouff!!


As we say around: "those who don't try don't make any mistake..."

About PW posts; that is quite frustrating... there must be a "good" reason... maybe the reason is actually the Header Writer?!?!?...

What I've found to be even more confusing regarding this is that it is actually there on some PW posts (MM ones) but "de-activated"!?!?!?(sorry; I've looked for that word in the dictionnary but have'nt found it!!!)

Yes, I admit I have tried to hack it but have'nt figure...

[jsfrost]

Paco,

My new Insignia post works great, so it wasn't a total loss. And I now have a new office sign to cut this weekend. With a slight twist on Paco, "Those who don't make any mistake... are managers."

[cabindoors]

Jerry D

Thanks Jerry for your information, but I still can't find the sbp to dxf converter.

Is there a stand alone sbp2dxf.exe converter? I'm using shopbot program ver 2.39m (dos) version in windows mode. I feel comfortable with this because I dislike the floating windows of the newer program and I only use Parts Wizard for a few V carvings. I do ALL of my programming with TurboCad Pro6 and then save to dxf.

I'm trying some trial versions of RAMS3d, MeshCam, Rhino, and Millwizard but need to convert sbp code back to dxf so that I can edit it.

Also, I'm fairly new to ShopBot (about 2 years) and I used to get a newsletter. But haven't had one in a long time. Do they send them out any longer?

[billp]

Tom,
The converter in question is IN the Windows version, not 2.39......You may just have to load that software to convert the files, even if you don't use it to run the 'Bot...

[wemme]

Gidday I am currently wirting a windows app for converting from DXF to shopbot. it allows the user to optimise the tool path and handles Tool offset so you no long need to keep tools in mind when drawing the dxf in Cad. What other feature would people be interested in?

[birdsofplay]

Bet you guys thought I'd dropped off the face of the earth , eh ? :-)

Well I have a 3d convert question ...
I have a mind to make a mold for a LARGE model glider and have created the model in MicroStation modeler.
I then use a cheap tool path creation program after exporting form CAD to IGES.
AT THIS POINT it converts tap and then to SPB ok and looks ok in the SB preview windows
BUT !!!
There is A LOT of wasted time milling off material
that I could BANDSAW OFF much faster.
IE the old raster milling scheme.
All I really want to mill is THE PART, ya know.
So I figured I COULD convert SBP to DXF and trim off ALL the excess lines - RIGHT ? sigh .....

The latest SB program did a fine job converting from Tap to SBP but going Back to DXF I get something wierd ! At least it wont import into my CAD with any resemblence to the original.
Everything seems JAMMED to one plane in Z and all
I see are in "top view" are a bunch of lines that DID NOT APPEAR in the preview !?!?!

I guess I COULD go out and try to find some TAP or G-CODE to DXF program out there in CNC-land someplace.

But not having access to expensive toolpath SW - Got any other ideas ?

Thanks in advance !

[Brady Watson]

Bob,
Nice to see you are still alive!


Send me an e-mail with part, material, bits you want to use and preferred strategy and I will send you a Zipped SBP.

-Brady

PS- Millwizard is cheap @ $250...

[birdsofplay]

Well thanks Brady, but I want to develop a method
I can use ALL the time or whenever , ya know :-)

Last time I looked a MillWIzard it had the
same problem I am trying to eliminate.
That being all the extra time spent cutting
material from a rectangular block that
"bounds" my part. When All I want to mill is the
Part, maybe an extra .25 inch or not much more.

3D milling is tedious and time consuming enough
without having to cut unwanted stuff, ya know.


Thanks for the offer

[birdsofplay]

OK I found THIS FILE
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8814
which Does convert g-code to DXF.
Program Credit given at that site.

I had to rename my tap to .cnc, but, so what !

AND when I import it into CAD it looks like
it should .

I then used a FENCE to CLIP OFF entire sections
of lines that I did NOT want to mill.
I used an offset OUTLINE of my part as a guide
to do this.
Then an export to DXF and an SB convert to SBP
and WAH LAH !!!
It appears to be WHAT I Wanted
This should save HOURS of wasted machine time !
and create a lot less dust !

Of course, I am very much open to better and/or
quicker ideas keeping in mind COST
ie FREE or very few $$$

[ricks]

Hi bob,
I used to use Millwizard (I use Visuallmill Basic now). With Millwizard I would use the finishing pass as a roughing pass, after haveing bandsawed the waste away. Then a final finishing pass to get the part smooth. That way all cuts are following the profile only. Would this work for your parts?

Rick Samish

PS I'm that other Microstation user.

[paco]

Hi Bob!

Have you had a look at MeshCAM (http://www.robgrz.com/meshcam.phtml); it can do the finishing pass on only the geometry...

[birdsofplay]

Hmmm ???
Looks like Meshcam is the cheaper of the two.
I havent grabbed a demo of either yet.

But to be sure about my quest here ...

What I want to eliminate from raster style milling
schemes is the unnecessary portions.
Say I was doing a 3D of the Letter L
A "bounding box" would be set around the L and it
would work OK for One axis of the L
but the other axis would have
LOTS of wasted cut time.
A Domed shape or similar that mostly fills a bounding box is no problem.
It's just those Larger jobs where efficency comes
into play. More so if one does X and Y passes.

My goal is to cut Fuselage L&R HALVES for Model gliders out of Dense Foam for Mold making.
These can get rather Large 60 x 30 and larger.
Hence lots of waste time and material.

Certainly several compromises can be considered.
But I seem to have my teeth into this one issue at present.

I will go and get the Meshcam demo and see how
it "plays". Sound promising tho :-)
I believe it has a 60 day free trial period too.

[paco]

Here a screen shot of what can be done with MeshCAM (from the build #2)...


4488

This may not reflect EXACTLY what Bob is looking for... but I've founded that the features are there in MC, but one have to play and trick the software to get it all. Say one don't like the fact that MC does'nt allow "regionnal" machining with the roughting startegie, just use the finishing and set the parameters accroding to the needs.Say one wish to machine only a region of the geometry, set the stock according to your needs.

[paco]

By the way, I've come up with a modified post for MeshCAM 2... let me know if not happy with the output SBP files.

[birdsofplay]

4489

Ok I created a Pic of my littel project
About 60" X by about 30" Y and about 5 in Z

SO my whole issue is ...
I dont want to mill ANY OF THE BLUE !

I have not been able to discover ANY options
in any of the mill demos that would allow
the type of action that I want !

So my FIX was to REconvert the toolpath BACK
into DXF and then use a FENCE to CLIP OFF
all the path portions that I dont want.

Freemill and Mesh mill look like great bargains
but neither seem to do the "BOBmill" thang :-)

Am I just wierd ? Am I asking too much ?
Is all that wasted time acceptable to everyone else ?

Maybe I've just picked the wrong battle, sigh ...

What say ye ?

[paco]

Maybe you need to look at other more versatile 3D CAM$ which may offer such 3D strategie as you're looking for... I remember that FeatureCAM (which I looked at recently) seem to offer MANY 3D strategies... as RhinoCAM too.

Don't take it bad Bob but a few hours of play with a software might not be enought for you to discover all about it...
4490

[birdsofplay]

No Problemo, Paco :-)

Which 3DCAM was the original question, and at what price.

Actually,
I thought maybe the Mechcam "WaterLine" pick
would be just what I wanted, but, NOT so far anyway.

Also Mechcam seemed ( not sure ) but seemed to
have lots more JOGS than I would have expected.
I.E. Blue lines ! ??? hmmmmm
I expected simple back and forth raster style cutting for the whole job.

Because it is FOAM I plan to DUMMY up a LONG TOOL
selection and PRETEND there is only ONE PASS.
Then I'll run it a couple of times, moving the
zero down between each pass. "roughing"

Then maybe a Final Finish pass.
I "expect" to have to do some TOUCH up sanding anyway.

I'll keep playing and keep you posted.

[jerry]

Hi Bob,

You are not asking two much, I also had the same issue. What I did was to write a Java program that takes three inputs, the shopbot file, a Z height and a Z direction. The program then removes all the extra XY moves. On some of my files I have seen a 10-25 percent drop in time to cut and size. The program is written in Java but it could be converted to another language. The actually code is quite simiple. I play with different Z values and use the Shopbot previewer or MicroTech CNC simulator to see how it looks.

[paco]

Hey Bob,

you may want to have a look at this page (http://www.grzsoftware.com/todo.php) as for some futur features for built 2 of MeshCAM... especialy #8 and # 13 of the "High priority list"...

I don't own a MeshCAM lisence yet but I do really like it for my so far small 3D CAM needs... I've looked at many and some look to be quite versatile but the price usually follow not too far if you see what I mean!

Water line finishing does generate more jogs... so far does'nt really like it since along with more jogs it make the tool vibrate alot from small X & Y stairsteps kinda moves... After a couple of test with this "strategie" I decided to avoid it...

As for...

"Because it is FOAM I plan to DUMMY up a LONG TOOL
selection and PRETEND there is only ONE PASS.
Then I'll run it a couple of times, moving the
zero down between each pass. "roughing""

I'd suggest (in MeshCAM) to just set the max machining depth to desire and run the files one after the other and maybe trick the software with a just a little larger tool (say 0.188" while you have a 0.125" CED) for the first (roughting) and run the finishing one with the right diameter setting... do I make sense?

Yeah, unless you set the stepover to very low, sanding will mostly be required... "Oversampling" does improve the resolution of the toolpath, but at calculating time cost(sometime quite long)...

[harold_weber]

Hey Bob,

What you arte looking for goes by different names depending upon the toolpathing package.

In ArtCAM, it is called "Machine Under Vectors"
In Sescoi's WorkNC, its called "machine inside boundary curves"

Can some of you folks out there tell Bob what this feature is called in other toolpathing software he may wish to try? Its hard to look something up in the index when you dont know what its called.....

If you can't find a reasonably priced package, you could try to minimize the "blue" portion of your sketch by rotating the part as shown below:


4491

[birdsofplay]

Thanks Paco - I like the sound of new feature # 8

Harold - thank you also for some illuminating terminology ! and the minimizing idea as shown in your pic.
Like you said, If a guy doesnt know what to ask about, then
It's kinda hard to ask about it !

The minimizing idea is CLOSer and a step in the right direction to be sure.
but I'm still hoping for something better.

BTW I have been playing with MeshCAM and
CANNOT get it to DO what Paco shows in his
picture a few posts ago ! ??? hmmm
That is, if you look close at his pic -
there are toolpaths ONLY around the art.
Thats pretty much what I was looking for.

I have a mind to Write to MeshCAM this evening to see if they can enlighten me.

More as the plot thickens

L8r

[birdsofplay]

OK OK OK Hold the presses !!!
I downloaded the LATEST MeshCAM "2".

It HAS a geometry only Selection !!! Ya Hooo !
It does what I was looking for all along !

For $100 it is starting to look like a Very Good Deal !

http://www.grzsoftware.com/buy.php

Experiments will continue into the night :-)

L8r

Bob

[paco]

Oups! Sorry, there is 2 versions availables... just keep in mind that 2 is in progress; not much known bugs just being update regulary. In 1.8, I've founded that it was'nt outputing the right MS line from the post(might have been fixed now); 2 is working fine.

Here the link to the MeshCAM support forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meshcam/) for users help and tips.

[birdsofplay]

Thanks some more Paco !

It's been a day of Hunny Do's
so no news re MeshCam experiments.
However, I believe it is going to be my solution.
Especially the new version.

Now If I can get more adept at creating
3D models I'll be happy as a Clam !

[paco]

Yeah; MeshCAM brought back my Rhino enthusiasm.
4492

[carl]

Bob - Try Rams software, it will let you pick small areas that you want to machine only. You can pick large areas, small areas, and you can pick 50 of these areas if you like, so if you pick the main portion that you want to machine, then keep picking the little areas around the edge. This will let you cut down on your machine time greatly.
Hope this helps, Carl

[birdsofplay]

Carl

Thanks for RAMS tip.

It does look tempting and feature packed
but at $895 I'm never gonna justify it.
So I'll probably pass on the trail/demo version.

Now IF I had some PAYING jobs taht could offset
expenditures like that I'd certainly consider it.