How Do I .......

[d_h]

I have a second z axis and I would like to use both,
using two different bits. How do I change over to the other router and then back?

[paco]

Hi Darryll!

Lucky you!... I'm considering a second Z too.

You will have to get familiar with 2 Z posts from your CAM and some other documentation. There is routine(s) (I believe) to settle the Zs and I have this PDF doc that I can email if you wish (it explain in detail both tandem and indepedant setup and part files too) it may be a little old (2003); maybe there is an update doc. but I have'nt founded it at the download page...

Have you contacted info or support @shopbottools.com? I'll bet they will help you!

[bill.young]

Hey Darryll,

Grant at ShopBot would be the one to ask about it...he's done a lot of work on setting up tools with both a Z and an A axis.

Bill

[Brady Watson]

Simple. Do the following:

Using the SB Editor, copy the following into a new file, and save as a .SBC in your Custom folder. If Custom6.sbc and Custom7.sbc are not taken, save the following as 6 & 7 respecively:

___________________
'Save this as Custom6.sbc (Rename if 6 is already taken to customX.sbc where X is an available # on your system)

'Switch to 1st Router
'If runnng Alpha OR PRT with identical gearbox ratios on Z-axis comment the following line to eliminate unit value setting
VU,,,916.733 'PRT ONLY! Check YOUR unit values. Double this val for 7.2:1 Z axis stepper
VI,,,,,,,3,4 'Keep this line

____________________________________

'Save this as Custom7.sbc (Rename if 7 is already taken to customX.sbc where X is an available # on your system)

'Switch to 2nd Z Axis

'If runnng Alpha OR PRT with identical gearbox ratios on Z-axis comment the following line to eliminate unit value setting
VU,,,916.733 'Check YOUR unit values. Double this val for 7.2:1 Z axis stepper
VI,,,,,,,4,3 'Keep this line
______________________


That should do it. Now when you are ready to run the 2nd tool, just type in C7 to pull up the Custom7.sbc you just created. You can then run any .sbp using the 2nd Z as your primary. To switch it back, simply call up C6 to switch them back.


-Brady

[bill.young]

Hey Darryll,

Brady's Custom Cuts above will do the switch for you, but you also need to deal with the offset between the centers of the 2 bits so that they will both be cutting in the same place on the material after the switch.

You also have to be aware of the height of each axis when you do an axis switch using the VI command. If one of the Z-axis moves up and down and then you switch axis with the VI command, the second axis will think it's at that height, even though it hasn't moved. You'll need to have each axis move to a standard "parking" height before making the switch, so that they start and end up at the same place.

If you can generate your part files so that they output M4 and J4 and MA and JA commands then this problem is taken care of...the 3rd axis is your "first" Z and the 4th axis is the A axis...your "second" Z.

Bill

[Brady Watson]

Bill,
I started writing about the offsets & zzero issues, but deleted it to keep things a bit simpler.

I guess I should have asked how you plan on using your 2nd Z...If you will be using the 2-head post processor or switching them individually.

-Brady

[d_h]

Thank you all for the help. But I don't quite understand the axis height being a problem . If I use the Zzero routine , I still have to bring them back to the same height before I start using the other axis?
As far as the offsets , do I input those numbers in the VA section?
I will use the 2nd Z for a second operation with a different router bit.

DH

[dingwall]

ALWAYS insert two height commands to synchronize the heads before switching.

i.e.
JZ 1
JA 1

Then you can safely insert the head switching command.

VI ,,,,,,4,3 (to switch to the A)
or
VI ,,,,,,3,4 (to switch to the Z)

If both heads are not at an identical height before switching, you'll mess up your head heights mid file and the results will be disasterous.

Brady, I've never tried your method, I'll have to read up on it.

[slendon]

Quick tip re two z axis:

If you don't use one of the axis very much you may find that the lower V rollers bind up with dust that settles in the groove and stops all the movement of the axis. ...had me scratching my head for a few hours the first time it happened, Í've made a simple dust cover to shield the rollers now.

Steve

[Brady Watson]

Sheldon,
My machine has 2 Z's...except they will NEVER work together (one is a Colombo, and one is a plasma torch) so I set up the machine to just switch the Z axes depending on what I am cutting. This may be helpful for someone that is doing a similar operations where they will never be used together...If trying to set up 2 Zs to work TOGETHER, then completely ignore my previous post with the custom cuts.

-Brady

[grant]

Hello, this is Grant from ShopBot. As Bill mentioned, I have been working on some new techniques for implementing dual heads. Here's the way we do it currently. In PartWizard and the ArtCAM family of products, you will have a postprocessor called "head 2 inch". When you choose that one, instead of M3 moves with Z positions, you get M4 moves with A positions. Z is not used, it's parameter is simply skipped over. Here's how this looks.

Normal file:

M3,3.000,2.000,0.500

Head 2 file:

M4,3.000-&Xoffset,2.000-&Yoffset,,.500

Either when the software is opened or the file is run, a separate lookup file with your established offset distances is read. That way this same code output works for everyone's machine - your offset value will just be a little different in the lookup file depending on how your 'Bot went together. What's good about this is that there isn't any confusion about which axis is Z or A, or what the correct position of it is. The confusion that some of these guys were mentioning goes like this:

When you use a VI switch to change the identity of an axis, in this case to make A function as Z and vice versa, the actual position of the axis goes from one to the other as well as control. For instance, if Z is at 1" and A is at 3" and you do a VI switch, the software is going to believe that the Z axis (which was the A just a second ago) is at 1", when actually it's at 3". The converse is true for the A (which was the Z just a second ago). As you can imagine, this situation can get quite confusing.

So, with the current setup you will need to output files intended for Z with the normal postprocessor, files intended for A with the 2 head postprocessor. The way they are drawn, toolpathed and the files are run are identical. To complete the system, there is an Azero file that functions just like the Zzero file but it runs the A. Lastly we have just completed a simple program called an "axis duplicator". It will take a file output with the normal postprocessor and duplicate the Z positions as A positions.

Original file:

M3,3.000,2.000,0.500

Resulting file:

M4,3.000,2.000,0.500,0.500

This is for people that want the heads run in tandem (both at the same time) yet all the while they retain their axis and positional identity. I am more than happy to send the documents and files you will need to use this system, just contact me at your leisure.

Best regards,

Grant Bailey

[Ryan Patterson]

Using the method that Grant has supplied would be the best way. But I do not use PartWizard This is the code I have set up in a custom part and use it in my part files. It will not switch A with Z if, The two are not at the same height or if you are trying to use the A axis as the primary if the primary axis is already the A axis. I have set a user variable and saved it to the shopbot.opt file, the variable name is &router and holds the value "front" (&router = "front"). This variable will keep track of witch axis is the primary Z. The front router is the router closest to 0,0.

begin:
&front = %(3)
&back = %(4)
Input "What z to use as Primary (F)Front or (B)back" &answer
&ans="&answer"

if %(3) <> %(4) then goto zheight
'if %(3) < %(4) then goto zheight

if &ans = f then goto front
if &ans = b then goto back
Front:

[Ryan Patterson]

When I read Grants post about the axis duplicator I thought it would not be to difficult to do something similar. I put together a tool that will move the values for Z to A.

J3,2,2,1 to J4,2,2,1,1
M3,2,2,-.5 to M4,2,2,1,-.5

The conversion will use the Z height in the J3 for the safe height in the new M4. ( it will not put a z value in a move command if the move command is before any jogs) I have added it to CabinetParts to make writing code a little faster. It can be downloaded at www.cabinetpartspro.com (http://www.cabinetpartspro.com) It is in both Free and pro versions. If any of you would like the Z to A converter as a stand alone let me know. After install the converter can be found under “tools”. In settings under the ShopBot tab you can add the offsets for the two axis.

[seana]

Hi all,
I just recieved my bot used (new to me) and it has dual z so this thread is perfect timing. Problem is i'm really just learning all of this and i'm a little lost on Grant's post.
Is there supposed to be a "postprocessor" with "head 2 inch" in partswizard that i'm not locating? Or do i have to do something else.
I have gone in shopbot editor and added the code to move A axis around, so i get the idea but it was very time consumming.
Thanks for you help i feel like a dope.

Sean

[Ryan Patterson]

Sean,
Contact Grant he helped me a few months ago and emailed me all the files for the dual axis.

To All,
I have posted a stand alone software to Convert Z to A. It can be downloaded at http://home.cabinetpartspro.com/download.htm If you need any help email me.

Ryan

[Ryan Patterson]

I have added some more to the A to Z converter. You can select to replace only X,Y,Z values (will replace only the values in M3 commands), and add to X,Y,Z values (will add values to Jog & Move commands).

Has anyone tried the converter? I would like to know if there is any interest, if there is I will continue to post when there is an update or any changes.

Ryan

[Ryan Patterson]

I tried to use M4 commands in place of using VI. I ran the code listed below SO,1,1 turned the spindle on but when it started to MZ,-.25 the output switch #1 turned off and output switch #2 turned on. Then when it got to MA output switch #2 turned off. I tried it with a few other files with M4 and MA commands it did the same thing. Am I doing something wrong?
so,1,1
MZ,-.25
MZ,1
pause
so,1,0
so,2,1
pause
MA,-.25
MA,1
so,2,0

[bill.young]

Hey Ryan,

What version of the software are you running? There was a fix for an SO problem in version 3.4.7 which the readme file lists as...

"Corrects malfunction of [SO] inside of move stacks (particularly PRT)"

Bill

[Ryan Patterson]

The version is 3.4.1. I will update the software and try again.

Thank you,
Ryan

[Ryan Patterson]

I installed the new version and it fixed the problem.
Although the work around for "BIG RED" does not work anymore


I have updated the A to Z converter it is now a shopbot part text editor. http://home.cabinetpartspro.com/download.htm

[srwtlc]

Hey Ryan,

Try this, Microsoft Virtual Desktop Manager (http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/Install/2/WXP/EN-US/DeskmanPowertoySetup.exe) for dealing with "Big Red".

[Ryan Patterson]

Thanks Scott I will give it a try.

I have had reports with the A to Z converter not saving to the right text format. Problem is fixed. http://home.cabinetpartspro.com/download.htm