Shift select doesn't compute?

[ROMPER]

I have a a drawing for some parts in intellicad
that i convert to a autocad version 14 dxf. I open that dxf with vector cad and shift select to order the path i want shopbot to cut it in and then save that file with vectorcad as a dxf. I convertit to a sbp file and run it runs half the file where it is suposed to be however the other half is on the -x side
whAts up with THAT?

[swims@mindspring.com]

First, there's no need to save the file once it's in Vector as a .dxf.

Before you create the NC file, where is your origin point/the coordinate axes? Then, when you run your shopbot file, where is your origin, and are you running the file offset in 2 axes or not?

Until you get used to how to run the files, you may want to draw your shopbot table surface on your drawing file. Place the origin (the blue axes marker) on the bottom left corner of the table/rectangle and place the drawing of your object where you will want the actual object to be cut. This approach, by the way, will be easier to accomplish if you are cutting something out of 4X8 sheet goods. To run the file, make sure your router is at x=0 y=o before you start and make sure NOT to check either of the offset boxes in the shopbot dialogue. If your file still runs with 1/2 of the object on the -x side, then you have a problem. If it runs OK then you're fine.

I don't use this approach though. I always use a series of placement strategies starting in my Vector file and then use the 'offset axes in x and y' function. The key, like I alluded to above, has to do with where in your Vector drawing you place the origin point/coordinate axes. Try a test file or two and move the axes to different spots and creating NC files. Just remember that wherever the blue axes are in your drawing is where your router starts from. It'll start to make sense once you see it.

[jkforney@yahoo.com]

Romper and Steve
Just grab the coordinate axis (hold left mouse button down on it) and move it to where you want your x & y zero. Note that it will snap to the nearest snap point (special options snap mode to change). This coordinate axis will now coincide with shopbot's working x & y zero.

If you need to start at a point where there is no snap point try Axis move displacement to move the axis to a distance you know.

Also as you move your axis around to draw different items you can always Axis reset. This will place the coordinate axis back to the original point when you started your drawing. This is useful when you know points in your drawing from other points, just drag the axis to the point and draw, then axis reset or drag to another point.

Steve email me a file and a fuller description of your problems with the pocket routine, maybe there is an easier way.


John Forney

[jkforney@yahoo.com]

Steve
On my way to the shop this morning I thought that maybe a explanation of the pocket dialogue would help, if not you, some others. I find this dialogue box to be the most confusing at first.

First
The draw other curves pocket Horizontal and Spiral will not allow a islands inside of islands. A box around an A has will allow pocketing of between the box and the outside of the A. It will not allow you to do the pocket inside the A at the same time you are doing the area between the box and the outside of the A. Inside areas must be selected individually and then done one at a time.

2nd
The box asks for input of certain items. I will explain these input questions.

A. Tool Diameter is the diameter of your bit
B. Feed is the percentage of each movement. A 1/2 inch bit with a 50% feed would move over 1/4 on each pass of the roughing routine.
C. Stock distance is the amount to be left on the roughing pass. A 1/4 stock distance would rough to a 1/4 inch distance from the final edge of the pocket.
D. Finish level first is checked if you want to do the roughing pass and the finish pass in sections.
E. Z movement pocket depth is the depth that you want the pocket. Input as a minus
F. Step in pocket depth is the steps to reach the final depth. No matter what you input it will never cut deeper that the number above.
G. Finish Check box must be checked for the finish pass to occur. The finish distance will be 1/2 of the tool diameter (the radius).
H. The step in pocket depth is the depth of each step that you want to cut to reach the final depth. The final depth is determined at item E.

The two boxes Z Movement Connections and Approach and Depart bring up other dialogue boxes. Z Movement Connections is the Draw Other Curves Connect At Z. The Approach and Depart is how you control the easing into and departing from your pocket edges. The take a arced path into and out of the cuts so that you don't have an abrupt plunge into the edge.

Also you can use a radius offset and hatching to accomplish pocketing. I believe that the steps have been covered on this forum or if a search won't find them then try the forum at Vectorcam.com. If anyone needs further info on it post here and I'll detail it when I get a little more time.
I hope that this will help.

As far as the changes in Vector 9, there are two new pocket routines and Fred will have to give guidance on them since I haven't used them much.

John Forney

[romper]

steve
First, there's no need to save the file once it's in Vector as a .dxf.
if i do not save tha file how does it make the changes to that file.

Before you create the NC file, where is your origin point/the coordinate axes? Then, when you run your shopbot
file, where is your origin, and are you running the file offset in 2 axes or not?

what is nc?

the parts a on a 4'x4' sheet with 0,0 at the bottom left corner. the file runs fine as a autocad dxf it just doesn't cut in the right
order. when the file comes from vectorcad it seems to randomly take half the file mostly arcs and run them in -X

[jkforney]

romper

Please email the file to me and I'll take a look at it. I'm not quite understanding your questions or problems.

NC stand for numerically controlled. Your origin is exactly where the blue arrows are. If you deselect the imported dxf and then holding down the shift key and clicking on the lines in the direction (the way the red arrows are) and order you want to cut the file should cut in the direction and order you want. Once you have selected all the chains, you need to go to draw other curves connect at z, then special insert nc then in the cam side macro start-click the generate nc code from geometry icon (last icon on tool bar) and then macro end.

If you want to start cutting from the lower left corner simply drag your blue coordinate axis to that point before you Special-insert nc. On the other hand if you put your shopbot at the point where the blue coordinate axis is (say the center of your 4 x 8) and zero both x and y then you should cut correctly.


John Forney

[swims@mindspring.com]

romper:

Yes, you need to save the file, it's just easier to save the file in the native format, rather than as a .dxf. If memory serves me, I believe that when you save a file in Vector as a .dxf, everytime you update the file and try to save, you get a dialogue box that tells you that you already have a file by that name and asks if you want to override the old file. When you save in the native format, you don't have that extra step.

Also, if you have trouble just dragging and dropping the coordinate axis, just type in the letter 'p'. You'll get a special cursor (looks like an 'X') that you place where you want the axis to be, then just click/enter.

JF: (From other thread)As an example of where the pocketing routine falls short just try pocketing out the insides of Blackadder ITC font. I believe it's an included font w/ Windows 98. Some letters do fine, others only partially, and some not at all. Oddly, I couldn't predict by the appearance of the letters which ones would pocket and which ones wouldn't.

I just did some signs for the Parade of Homes that used that font; average height was around 6 inches. The programming of the pocketing routines was anything but routine. I used several different approaches to get what I needed, but it sure would have been nice if the spiral pocketing function could have handled it. The extra approaches worked fine, and the signs looked great, but the extra time at the computer took a good bite out of my profit.

I guess I should actually get my wallet out and buy the Vector upgrade. I just didn't see from the literature that the improvements were of much use to me right now. ... Yes, I am that cheap.

[swims@mindspring.com]

romper

Also, I often have problems when importing .dxf files into Vector. Strange lines show up that shouldn't be there, lines that should be there aren't etc, etc, ad infinitum. You may have a problem that is more related to vector's reading of the original .dxf file.

I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager it's a .dxf translation problem from what you've just described.

Starting from the beginning, open your file, select all entities, change attributes to a black line with a dimension of '0' (type that # in to the appropriate box if it shows something like 0.003) hit enter, and then view all. With everything still selected (should be red w/ a bunch of arrows) find the reorganize button and do that. Deselect everything, use your magnifying glass and take a closer look at the drawing and tell us how it looks. If it looks fine, but still isn't working for you, then email me the file and I'll give it the old college try.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

While we're on the subject of importing DXF. What version of AutoCAD is recommended for saving the DXF as? I've heard that versions above 12 cause problems with some programs.

[imserv@imsrv.com]

There are some entities in DXF that vector does not support. Poly arcs are NOT supported, nor are ellipse entities. These must be exploded before attempting to import into Vector.

The dimensioning and text/annotation formats in DXF are also a moving target. Vector will nearly always import all the Acad 12 format. Most of 13 and 14, with the exceptions I noted.

The problem with the Black Adder ITC font is the font and not Vector. If you look at the outline carefully, you will see that it has a large number of zigzag and actually crosses itself repeatedly. Try to offset the font using the "one path" setting, before creating a pocket(say by .010 inch). This will remove most of the crossovers and may make the pocketing better. The pocketing rule is that the outlines cannot have loops. This is the rule for creating a Tru-Type font too. Unfortunately the designers of the Black Adder font failed to follow the rule.

[swims@mindspring.com]

Regarding the pocketing: that makes sense, then. I mistakenly assumed that the font was 'clean' since it's a Tru-Type.

When I said that I have trouble importing .dxf files into Vector, I should have said that I have noticed some issues with importing and exporting .dxf files in general, which I seem to be doing on a daily basis here lately. I didn't intend to leave the impression that the problem was with Vector. My bad. ('my bad???' did I just write that?)

So I guess I'll now revise my original desire for Vector to improve it's pocketing function to.... uh... how about if Vector could just automatically solve all of my problems without any intervention on my part. Yeah, that's the ticket.