Suggested 3D design fast track??

[kaaboom_99]

Hi guys. I have done a fair bit of 2d designs and cutting, but what I truly yearn for is to be able to design and cut in 3d. I have rhino3d and played with it a bit but my own abilities have me coming up short with being able to think beyond 2d.
Can anyone suggest a course(s) or program to get me over this hump? Is AutoCad the way to go? Is there an economical way to achieve knowledge to design this way?
Locally, the community college offers AutoCad as a 6 course certificate with 2 other courses as a pre-requisite. Too long and too much $$$.
Any suggestions??

[Brady Watson]

Perry,
I think that you already have a good program to start with ~ Rhino. While it is not as easy to use to create very detailed & intricated reliefs, it is an excellent tool for learning to work in 3D. I personally found it priceless for being able to get my brain wrapped around working in 3D. The interface is a little intimidating at 1st, but once you get the general idea, modeling in it is pretty easy.

AutoCAD, in my opinion, is so powerful that it can be really intimidating for someone who wants to learn 3D. Rhino is an excellent choice. While signing up for a CAD class would certainly not be harmful, I would check to see exactly how much 3D material is covered. It sounds to me like you have a good handle on 2D, so it could be a waste of time. I would strongly suggest doing the tutorials that come with Rhino and searching the web for Rhino tutorials. There are a lot of them out there, in addition to McNeel authorized training videos.

They say that Rome wasn't built in a day...so bearing that in mind, realize that designing in 3D is not a skill that you will learn overnight. Give yourself some time, and by all means, play with the software as much as possible. Design silly things and non-work related stuff & keep the mood light. It's easy to get frustrated if you have to learn under pressure, and consequently give up...Little bites each day will get you on your way.

-Brady

[kaaboom_99]

Thanks Brady, for the words of encouragement. I get frustrated when I come to a wall and can't seem to climb over it. I tend to back up and return to familiar ground.

[hespj]

Perry

I suggest getting a book and working through the 3D tutorials. All will become clear after a while.

[kaaboom_99]

Thanks John.
I actual do have a book. "Inside Rhinoceros 3" by Ron K. C. Cheng. It came with a cd of models to support the lessons, but I gave up on the software when I hit a mental wall and then no extra time to train myself. I had the software loaded on an older PC that is now "dead" <Everyone, please remove your caps for a moment of silence. Thank you>
I loaded Rhino back onto my new system yesterday, blew the dust off the books and shall attempt this AGAIN!

[btk]

Perry,

Can you give some example of an specific 3D project that you were having trouble with and perhaps we can give you some very specific help on trying to get past that stumbling block area (or rx a plugin) that might make your modeling much easier.

Brian

[artisan]

Perry, I work pretty extensively in 3D and use Rhino and 3DS Max regularly....especially for the more complex pieces that I build.

If you want to try a program that will let you go from drawing to model in the least amount of time, take a look at Sketchup. You can export models in the .3ds format and there's nothing close to it in terms of ease of learning. I currently do more than half of my work with this program. I can build a pretty complex architectural detail in 1/4 the time it takes me in Rhino....and I'm pretty fast at Rhino. There is a free version available and the "Pro" version is still around $500. I believe within a year I may have little use for Rhino, depending on what they offer in the new version which is due out soon....D

[kaaboom_99]

Darrell. Thanks for the heads up. I am downloading the free version to see if it and I are compatible.
I will get back to you in a bit.

[kaaboom_99]

Hi BTK.
I, at present, have no call for a 3d rendering. I would like to be in a position that should someone wish for a fish on a sign, that I am not limited to show them a v carved or an outlined image, but offer a third option of a "3D" image on their sign.
I am very grateful for your offer and if you don't mind, I would like to take a rain check on it, just incase I can't get past this wall.
The people on this forum are superb!

[kfitz]

Perry,

You have been given some excellent advice. I would add this: if at all possible, try to get into a Rhino class near you. The Rhino site has the trainings listed; they are all over the country. I learned Rhino by attending one of these many years ago. I highly recommend this approach; it will be money and time well spent.

Also, you can do some basic 3D ShopBot work with very little knowledge. You can buy ready-made 3D models all over the Internet. My favorite place is turbosquid.com. Many models are even free. Then all you need is the software to do the toolpathing and post-processing. There is a very good free program, equal to MillWizard IMO: FreeMill, available from MecSoft.

Here is a picture of my FIRST 3D project done several years ago: http://krfitz.com/cnc.htm (The Velociraptor) How did I do it? I used an inexpensive model from TurboSquid, sliced it in Rhino and toolpathed and created sbp files in MillWizard. If I could do it, anybody can.

Regards and Good Luck,
Kevin

[les_linton]

Perry,

I'll go ahead and put another plug in here for the offerings that James has at www.vectorart3d.com (http://www.vectorart3d.com)

In a few weeks I will post the finished project that I'm working on now. While I, like you, would love to learn this myself, I know from what I have in shop already that I will be money ahead at this time using his custom services. He has a link on his web site for those also.

Since the only real class I can find here is AutoCad and the general concensus is that it is not the right tool, I will have to continue this way.

Regardless, keep plugging away and give James a shot if you find the need before you get up to speed.

Just another biased opinion.

Les

[trakwebster]

I have yet to get to my own copy of Rhino3D.

However, what you are describing is pretty much what any human experiences when attempting to cover the ground faster than your actual learning speed. I have rather a slow learning speed so this has been very important to me.

The key is to (a) make *damn* sure you don't go past anything you don't understand, and especially the words used at the very beginning. If a word or two is unclear, then the sentence didn't make sense, and generally that makes the paragraph vague and the page misty and the chapter feels unclear. On this basis you plow on, but never feel like you're getting it and in fact it's hard to think because of those cloudy thoughts right at the bottom of your mental image of the thing.

The second key is (b) to go through the manual from the beginning, and look up every command they mention, and you see what it looks like. There is "knowing" in your head, and there is "knowing" with your senses meaning what your eyes saw, fingers felt, and ears heard. What you know with your senses -- having experienced something with your body -- feels solid and clear. What you "know" with your head, maybe yes and maybe no.

This will seem rather slow, and maybe it is, but the learning will be solid, and your internal model will be clear. You may think that you *should* be able to go faster, but true learning doesn't go any faster than it goes. (This is why somebody showing you often produces fast learning, because the other guy can show you a direct path in which all is simple and clear.)

If you go slow, take pains to comprehend each new word encountered, and look up and do every single thing so that you understand it with your senses, then learning will occur. It may not seems fast, but under these conditions learning normally will occur.

Or in shorter words, if you clarify everything as you go so as to avoid confusions, and if you persist, then you will comprehend all, in time.

It works for me. So I offer my 2 cents worth.

[kaaboom_99]

Hi Arthur. All very good advice. I have tried reading the manual. Got half way through it the first time (before becoming overwhelmed). I am currently re-reading the manual.
Also found a place about 200 miles from here that offers a FREE 2 hr course on various aspects of Rhino. Bit of a drive for a 2 hr seminar, but I may just have to do it. Time will dictate that voyage.

[mikejohn]

Computer manuals are, I am sure, written by someone with Serbo-Croat as their native language, translated by a trained marmoset!
However, one thing that helps me. One thing I have found helpful, when things get really incomprehensible is to carry on reading until it really does seem like gobbledegook, put the book aside for a rest, then read the same part again. Having already read, and knowing what is about to come, often makes it easier to understand that which has gone before.
I learned this in the RAF when an instructor gave us a lecture on a Friday afternoon explaining how you ended up with colour prints via colour negatives. He said we wouldn't understand it, gave us hand outs to read at the end of the lecture.
On Monday morning, when he repeated the exercise, all was clear.
I guess we all do thing now on our computers, wondering how was it possible we didn't understand the first time around.

.............Mike

[robtown]

Don't read, do.

Tutorials, practice projects, etc...

Mess a few things up and it sticks with you, read a manual and it's like sh#% through a goose.

Everybody learns differently, but in my case books and manuals are reference info only, I learn best on the fly through hands-on experience.

One thing to consider is what do you want to do with this newly acquired 3d skill set? Figure that out and do some tutorials along those lines.

[jf_allie]

Perry,

Don't forget that you are
1. ...learning to model in a 3D...
2. ...nurbs based modeling...
3. ...software called Rhino.

These are three seperate knowledge/skill domain, albeit intricatelly woven together.

1. This is about visualizing the shape in 3D in your mind and breaking it down in the step by step procedure that will let you build that shape in the mathematical world of the computer. You have to have a clear idea in your mind of what it is you are trying to model. To develop that skill, the usual prescription is hand drawing, and clay sculpting. We can now add playing in a 3D software.

2. mesh modeling, subdivision surfaces modeling, nurbs modeling, and feature-based parametric modeling are the most often used basis for the popular 3D softwares. Each different modeling technique has a big impact on the way you will model. It is important to match the types of software with the kind of shape you are trying to model. If you want to make organic shapes like a fish for exemple, then I would suggest you have a look at subdivision based softwares like Silo, Modo, or ZBrush.

3. and lastly, even within a specific modeling technique, the software interface and its logic is of the up-most of importance. Try as many as you can to find the one that suits you the best. Here, planned usage is also important. Think about how often you will use it. If you use it once in a while, will it be easy to relearn.