Laser

[bruce_clark]

Has anybody thought about using a CO2 laser as a
cutting head on a ShopBot. I remember someone
a while ago was trying this out, but never heard
if he was successful.

I see used 25 watt CO2 laser appearing surplus and
fairly inexpensively. That has got me wondering
about how difficult it would be to hook one up to
run with the existing machine/software.

Anybody got any comments, thoughts, rude remarks
on the idea ?!

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)

[jimt]

Bruce,

all the lasers I've seen have a stationery laser unit and the table withthe part on it moves around. Probably because all those mirrors and tubing, etc. for cooling and focusing the beam are pretty heavy and moving them all around would probably knock them out of alignment. That said, don't know why you couldn't do the same thing with a Shopbot, by widening the x and y carriages!

Jim

[arthur_ross]

My main suggestion would be buy a pair of heavy duty laser goggles. At the power levels you will be dealing with, a stray reflection off a metal part or the frame could cause serious eye damage.

Arthur

[bruce_clark]

Arthur,

Yes, I have thought about that. With a CO2 laser,
the beam is invisible (infrared) so you cannot
see it comming, so that is an EXTRA dangerous
aspect of a CO2 laser.

I also believe that "legally" you have to encase
the entire laser "path" to protect from any
"stray" fingers/body parts from getting "burnt".

Lastly, I am also aware of requiring a lot of
"air" to clear away "smoke" from the burning
action, as CO2 "lenses" are very sensitive to
smoke particles AND they are supposidly VERY
expensive.

What I was wondering, is if anybody had actually
done or is comtemplating doing this. Maybe
someone has used a laser machine and has some
advice or tips to give me.

As for me, I actually prefere "toolbit" machining,
but I always like to keep my eyes open to other
posibilities.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)

[farly@mindspring.com]

I am interested in using a laser with my SB.
Has anyone out there tried this yet?
If so please post or send me an e-mail outlining your system and problems, successes, or other at farly@mindspring.com (mailto:farly@mindspring.com)
I think a 25 to 50 watt CO2 laser would cut wood?
Where would one locate one. Bruce Clark said in a post about a surplus one, where were these located and what is the cost?
Thanks in advance for any help.

[pjldesigns@hotmail.com]

Check out the following site:

http://www.uslink.net/~kern/

they sell complete laser systems and also laser heads.

[birdsofplay]

I just got back from the Grand Rapids woodworking show and saw several laser machines there.

BRING YOUR WALLET !

One system used a 100 watt laser and was capable of 3D sculpting. I got one of their freebees and will scan it in later for your looksee.

It claims fast astoo, like under 15 minutes for the piece I will be putting up for you.

Bottom line $68K or ~$1300+ per month for 4 yrs
Oh yeah, they had larger ones too :-)

Certainly 25 watters will do some engraving work and will cut stuff like gaskets etc. Even these are serious buckazoids !!!

Most that I've seen hang the actual laser off the back side and bounce the "power" via carefully placed mirrors along the X axis then into the Y axis then down to the work. That way the actual laser is not moving around and its got room for all those serious cooling fans too !!!

ALL ARE TOTALLY ENCLOSED ... NO COVER -> NO LASER !!!

Carefull what you're getting into guys !
I dont have on myself but get to play ocassionally.
I'm not sure I want one.

I'll post the picture URL later

[birdsofplay]

OK, as promised, go see ...

http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/3dlaser.jpg

These were handouts at the show !!!

BTW I misspoke it's actually $64,455 or
$1335 for " 60 " months !!!
see them at www.lasermachining.com

This machine WIL DO that sharp scrollwork
but it certainly AINT CHEAP !

[Lasersnow1@aol.com]

I have been following this forum quite closely lately. I supply lasers to all types of industries, but I specialize in low powered CO2 lasers, up to 50 watts. I am happy to discuss any of your needs. I can asure you that I will give you the absolute best prices anywhere on CO2 lasers!! I am happy to offer shopbot users any help that I can. Prices range from about $2,000 to around $8,000 for a CO2 laser and power supply, depending on power you are looking for. Bruce Clark is currently working with one of my low power CO2 lasers.

I will be happy to answer any laser questions you may have, rather you are interested in buying a laser or not!!

Best regards,

Kenneth Ferree
CEO
Lasers Now
801-785-8898

[birdsofplay]

OK you've piqued our interest ...

Do you have a catalog, webpage, or other for shopping ?

Another question I have always wondered about laser use ....

How is the laser controlled re off/on ?
I mean, how would an SB owner go about controlling the power? Does the laser get actually turned off and on rapidly (i.e. duty cycle)or is there some shuttering mechanism ?
Can we somehow interface directly with the Z axis commands or do we have to use an AUX port or other ?

Approximately what does $2000 buy us ?

Thanks

Bob

[lasersnow1@aol.com]

Bob,

Thank you for your question. I do have a webpage, that is currently under construction. I hope to have everything on there within a couple of weeks. http://www.lasersnow.com

The laser is controlled by a TTL pulse 0/5 volts. The power supply will pulse up to 3KHZ or you can just supply 5 volts to get a CW(continous wave "beam"). As far as interaction with the Z-axis I am not sure, maybe Bruce Clark can help there.

$2,000 would get you a 10 watt laser and power supply. You would need to work out the mounting and beam delivery from there.

Hope that helps,

Kenneth

[starlightH@worldnet.att.net]

Kenneth
I want to cut upto 3/8" plywood and balsawood
what watt laser would i need and how fast do you
think i can go
Thanks
SEAN

[birdsofplay]

Thanks for the reply,

OK, I figure that we can either use an X10 command
or a "motor off / motor on" command to send the laser ON/OFF commands.

Next ... I have a WOOD TABLE, hmmmm ?

So how or what do I do about cutting my whole SB into pieces ? Surely there is some light absorbent material that I will have to apply to my surfaces.

Steel table owners will have to worry about reflected beams.

Is there going to be a forthcomming "package" or HOW-TO for us Add-On-Laser "wannabes". Certainy there are a number of safety issues as well as practical usage issues that one would need to "come-up-to-speed" on

For this "away mission" I'm setting my Phasor to Stun ! :-)

Oh another thing ...

I have been getting scraps from a Steel Rule Die place. They cut solid maple plywood with lasers.
they make SOME mistakes and I've been getting some of that scrap.
I've noticed that the lasercut edges are black and in some cases there is a lot of black soot splattered on the surrounding area as well.
Now I figure that these guys know what they are doing so my question is ....

How FIRE CONSCIOUS are laser users going to have to be?

Something tells me that the Dust Collector will be replaced by a HALON system and an electrostatic ventilation system.

[lasersnow1@aol.com]

Sean,

You will need at least a 500 watt laser to do anything in the way of cutting 3/8 inch plywood. Unfortunately these units are still very expensive! The least expensive would run you around $60,000. As for the Balsa wood, I will try and get some and put power requirements, and speed ratio on later.

Let me know if I can help.

Best regards,

Kenneth

P.S. Thanks for the call

[lasersnow1@aol.com]

Bob,

Thanks for your reply and questions. Never to much knowledge to be gained. For your information, as well as for everyone else on the board. The 50 watt laser will not cut any thickness of wood to speak of. It will engrave it, mark it etc.. but won't have enough power to cut anything wood wise but maybe .1 inch. It will do an awesome job on plastic, rubber, cloth, etc. at very fast speeds up to 200 inches a minute.

As far as cutting your SB to bits. It is highly unlikely. The laser will be focused at the cutting area, and then difuse from there. Now I understand that some of you will place stuff right on top of your Table to cut. I suggest a thin piece of plywood or other type material to place as the cutting surface.

You are correct about users with metal tables. It is a safety issue for the reflection of the beam. At all times anyone utilizing a laser in cutting, etching etc. should ALWAYS wear there safety glasses, preferably the ones that are rated for the specific laser used. There are many more safety precausions to cover, and yes, I hope to work with Bruce Clark and others, and put together a safety type compliance package to supply with the Lasers.

Now to really make you understand that these lasers are no toys. But, 50 watts is not going to cut your arm, finger, or other extremities off. The major concern is the eyes!!!! A 50 watt CO2 will burn you of course, but it is like being burnt on your stove top or anything red hot. It will heal OK. The only exception would be if you had it at 50 watts, and somehow put your finger or arm in the exact focal point of the beam. This would do much more serious harm.

As for fires. The possibility is there, but it is not very likely that you will start a fire. You do however need to have a good vacuum/ventilation system, especially if you are cutting plastic, rubber and other materials that it isn't good to breath. The laser will start a fire instantly if you just fire it into wood, but as soon as you shut it off, the fire goes out. When you are moving, you should not cause a fire.

The people that are doing the laser cutting of maple, and have some serious ashing, should make adjustments of there purge gas to keep the ashing to a minimum. Typically in cutting applications you have an assist gas, not really to help with the cutting, but to keep the molten material out of the way.

I am sorry that this is so long, but wanted to answer your questions. A normal fire extenguisher is fine, unless working with certain materials. Consult your fire department, they can give you a better input, depending on what you are cutting or etching.

Always have good ventilation, and follow safety precautions.

Kenneth

[birdsofplay]

Thanks Ken,

No appology necessary :-)

Thats all great enlightenment and info.

The purge gas was an interesting new piece of info as well.

Re power:

I kinda figured that if the guys doing 3D wood sculpture were using 100W then MORE watts would be needed to actually cut all the way thru. 500W ... WOW !!! Welcome to Star Wars !!!

Re balsa ... I'll bet that the purge gas will be necessary to keep it from burning up. Balsa being pithy, punky or incense like will glow(burn) easily.
Back before mandatory mufflers on RC models I managed to start a few inflight fires in my carved balsa cowlings. :-) Great for "battle" effects but bad for "looks" heh heh heh

I'm thinking High pressure waterjet cutting might be a more practicle method for cutting flamable stuff.

[jimt]

Bob,

I don't claim to know all or even very much about waterjet cutting, but here's two things I do know. First, most watrejet cutters are in their own soundproof room due to the extreme noise the pumps make generating that massive pressure. Ssecond, there's abrasive in the water that actually does the cutting which means the nozzles war out fairly often and need maintenance. Also, if you think sawdust gets everywhere, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Good Luck

Jim

[birdsofplay]

Thanks for the info ...

Well, I guess I learned something about both Laser
and Waterjet cutting in this forum.

I'm starting to like my ol' Porter Cable 3.25hp more and more :-)
That is to say, my satisfaction level with current SB performance is improving and my taste for the more exotic is diminishing.

[RSBWW@BELLSOUTH.NET]

I USE A 25 WATT WATER COOLED CO2 LASER TO CUT FIBER BOARD, POLYCARBINATE, OTHER SIGN MATERIALS.
MY UNIT IS A SYNRAD VERTICLE MOUNT ON THE Z AXIS. ATTACHMENT WAS PERFORMED BY A MACHINIST FRIED OF MINE WITH ABOUT $25 IN MATERIALS AND PRO BONO LABOR. THE UNIT HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FOR ABOUT 18 MONTHS. VENTILATION WAS THE BIG PROBLEM. A CHEAP DUST COLLECTOR SYSTEM VENTED TO THE OUTSIDE WORKS GREAT. YOU MUST WATCH THE SYSTEM TO PREVENT FIRES. SO,1,0 AND SO,1,1 WRITTEN INTO THE PROGRAM INSTEAD OF JZ&ZUP AND MZ,-X.XXX WORKS WITH SWITCH #1 AND INPUT TO THE LASER CONTROLLER.
CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

I am a laser engraver and cutter we engrave just about anything including stainless
steel using a chemical process using the heat of the co2 laser .. A 25 watt laser will
cut 1/2 in. cedar without any knots with some smoke damage to the bottom of the wood,
a 50 watt will do a very nice job on most 1/2 in. wood material.. Usage unlike routers or
mech. engravers you can use a grey scale image the scale of darkness controls the power
the image controls the firing of the laser example if you fill a cicle with black it will remove
all the material in the circle you acn set the laser to cover from 200 lines per inch to 1200
lines per inch pulses from 0 to 1000 or continous .. on a light birch with agood greyscale
pic. it will repro. a fantastic pic.. hope this is some help..

[mostcs@lsinet.com]

I plan to use this system for laser cutting myself. I would like to be able to etch glass, plexiglass, etc. I have found some info in my search that may help some of you. First of all a laser must be selected. I have been looking at the Synrad models but I am sure many others are available. Since lasers in the 50W range are somewhat heavy (44 lbs.) I was looking for a delivery method to get it to the focus point. Synrad sent me to Laser mechanisms which for about $6,000 has a nice articulated arm system that should work. They have a web site at www.lasermech.com The nice thing about an articulated arm is that the beam is always a fixed length then fed into the focusing mechanism. I am hoping to get a 50W -60W laser with delivery system for around $17,000 and some labor. My problem is choosing a good CNC table to use. I am starting to become interested in the Shopbot thus the reason I am looking through these forums. I would also like to cut metal but I think a plasma cutter would be more cost effective. This will be my next search.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Dan, I just noticed you post. The chemical you use to laser engrave stainless. Would it work on mother of pearl?

[davidallen]

Sheldon,

I have some of the same stuff to mark metal. I don't know if it will work with other material, but mother of pearl should be 'markable' by itself. it you'd like, I could try a piece to test it for you.

da

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Sure Dave,

Do you want me to send some out? Email me your address.

[Atlas (Unregistered Guest)]

Did anyone have any luck putting a laser on their shopbot?

We are coinsidering having adding a Z, so we have a router and then a laser. The link above appears to have the lasers so its just a case of figuring out how to mount and use it!

[pknowles@trcc.commnet.edu]

Have any owners have retrofitted their tools with laser cutters? I teach a community college course that attempts to integrate/fuse CNC concepts with laser marking, cutting, heat-treating, etc. I would be interested in employing a Shopbot in lab.

[zeykr]

Patrick a search here will show several threads here about people with laser on their shopbots. this one may help you: http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/30/3500.html

[ttwillis]

Hi Ken & Patrick,

Not sure if you guys are still out there in cyberspace...but yes I have sucessfully integrated a ShopBot with a 40 watt laser. Unfortunately, my wife and I are moving and we think it would be easier to sell the machine than to move it with us...just have to start again, but the learning curve this time will be much much shorter.

Anyone interested in more details...feel free to contact me.

Thanks - ttwillis