Drum Sander question...

[harryball]

I'm considering a drum sander (not a spindle sander).

I've been using the planner to take off the surface of stock after vcarving and painting, this works great for wood but not MDF. Also, small parts do not go through the planner.

Can a drum sander take small parts OK? Such as a 8" x 5" plaque?

Can a drum sander work on MDF well enough to sand 1/32" off the face and leave the wording painted?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Robert

[terryd]

Robert,
A drum sander will do the job but they are a collosal pain in the ass for the price. I have one in the shop and it practically needs to be adjusted, tweaked and readjusted all the time. The length of the item passed should be 25%longer than the distance between the two drums or short enough that it is nowhere near two drums. In my machine the two drums are 12" apart and 5" - 8" long works okay or 15"+ works okay but that middle zone is a waste land of sniped parts or loud noises with the sanding belts being mechanically fed out in a controlled easy manner. Although MDF sands well the lack of effective dust collection and heat in the drums leads to gumming of the belts and consequently the pieces themselves are damaged.....My 2 cents

TerryD

[patricktoomey]

Robert,
I have a single drum open ended 16" drum sander and I run fairly small parts through it. I think parts are supposed to be at least 6" long but I've run 4" pieces through with no trouble as the conveyer belt delivers them on the other side unlike a planer where they can just sit in the machine precariously close to the cutters. I have to agree with Terry that they tend to be a real pain, requiring lots of tweaking and fussing but I do find them indispensable for some jobs. I have done some jobs in MDF where I leave a very thin skin and then run them through the drum sander upside down sanding away the skin. Works like a charm.

[harryball]

I was actually looking at a 16" single drum unit. My bain here is I have a pretty good outlet for small vcarved plaques related to our business. "Do not disturb the bats", "Caution, bats on duty" and so on. The problem is finishing them quickly so they are cost effective. MDF works great, but the masking process is just painful to me and I don't get good results.

I can get (hopefully) black MDF soon. My idea was to vcarve the wording, profile, paint the vcarve white, dry, sand, seal, done.

I tried the planner and enlarged one of my plaques to 15" so it does feed, but the planner makes the MDF look awful, all choppy.

hmm... Do you think a better planner with faster speeds might work? I could probably make more use of a better planner in the long run.

Has anyone successfully planned MDF, if so, what machine specs?

Robert

[mzettl]

Robert,

I have a duel drum sander, and I have to agree with Patrick and Terry on this. It is a pain to fiddle with, and for me it took a lot of fooling around to finally become proficient. The key to these tools is understanding that they are not meant to remove much wood at all in a single pass, unless you use 60 or even 36 grit paper. I'm afraid that if you tried to use one to remove paint, and used anything finer than 60 grit, you would gum up, or even burn the belt. Once that happens, you can throw the belt away, as they are impossible to clean once that happens.

Secondly, if you are going to consider one, get one that has separate motors for the drive belt and the drum. You need to abe able to easily adjust the feed speed, as this is a major contributing factor in getting good quality results. Be prepared to spend a lot of money on sandpaper.

In your situation, it would sure be good to be able to try one before you buy it so that you could see if it does what you want. I think to get a good quality finish on MDF, you would ultimately have to use at least 180 or 220, and those grits would be very inefficient in removing paint I believe.

Just my opinion.

Matt

[fleinbach]

I have planed MDF several times with my Makita 15 3/4" planer. It works very well. I do not have a need to cut out small parts very often but once, I cut some small parts, leaving a thin skin and ran them through the planer to release them just to see how well it would work. It worked just fine.

[harryball]

I currently have a two blade single speed Delta 12 3/4" planer. It does ok on most things but even on wood the surface varies with the wood type.

Frank, does the surface of the MDF look fuzzy once planed? I'm getting cut marks and fuzzies. I'd hate to invest in a new planer and end up with the same problem.

I've decided against a drum sander at this time, sounds too complicated as if masking would probably be eaiser.

Robert

[rcnewcomb]

One of the shops we deal with had a drum sander and switched to a wide belt sander. He felt the time saved by not messing with the drum sander more than made up for the price of the wide belt sander.

At another shop the guy built his own wide belt sander which rivals some of the top commercial units. (He is a genius when it comes to machinery.)

Up to now it has been easier for us to take our sanding to another shop in town. We pay about $1/minute for sanding. Is that an option for you?

[beacon14]

I suggest you look at the smaller wide-belt sanders made by Grizzly and a few other manufacturers. I ordered an 18" Grizzly at the IWF 2 years ago but before it shipped I came to my senses, cancelled it, and went with a 36" model from Timesavers called the Speedsander. It was around $7,500 (2 years ago) and it has been a lifesaver. If you will NEVER need larger than 18" or 24" then the Grizzly may be just what you need but for me the extra width has been invaluable.

The belts are not expensive ($20-$25 each), last a long time, and only take a minute or two to change. I can sand in minutes what used to take hours, and get better results (hmmm, just like the ShopBot!)

You are welcome to come by and take a look and run a few parts through if it will help you make your decision.

[rbarrow]

Check out the Woodmaster 26" single drum. I have been more than pleased with the performance and I don't have to do anything but put the right grit paper on the drum. variable speed conveyor and excellent dust system...

http://www.woodmastertools.com/s/drum.cfm

One of the best things I ever put in the shop...

[rhfurniture]

What happens if you put wide masking tape on them before you cut the wording?

[fleinbach]

Robert,

I purchased my Makita planer 35 years ago. The cut quality never leaves planer marks, like some I have seen. MDF doesn't have any fuzzies on it. Though I do have some MDF grades that appear to be granular looking.

[ryan_slaback]

Robert, I have not tried this but I imagine that a spiral cutterhead planer would plane MDF better as it is a shearing type cut.

[harryball]

I've tried masking tape, shelf paper and kraft mask sample sheet. None of them leave clean edges on MDF, on wood (which I can plane anyway) it does OK. The MDF lets the mask lift and fray for some reason. I've tried high speed, low speed, new onsrud bit etc... and I get "micro bleed" around the edges. I even tried shellac first, that helps with true bleed, but the edges still look fuzzy.

Robert

[jamesgilliam]

Robert, I too have an open ended drum sander and they are more of a pain than they are worth. I got it for our plaques and went back to my old method of finishing after just a couple of plaques, hand held quarter sheet sander. I don't get bleed on the solid wood I use, but it may be the paint I use, the gloss outdoor craft paint from Wally World. At about two bucks a bottle it isn't bad at all. James

[harryball]

Yeah, on solid wood or laminates the mask does well, it's the MDF that I get poor masking with. Someone suggested I seal the surface of the MDF first, then mask and carve... when I get a chance I'm going to give that a shot. They think the paint is actually running through the pores of the MDF around the edges and white paint on black MDF makes it worse.

Hopefully it'll work.

BTW, this is what I'm trying to produce. The price point is about $20 or so before shipping and markups etc... so I need to keep the process lean.


4765
Robert

[zeykr]

Robert,
I keep spray cans of shellac around put a couple coats on mdf before masking. I pretty much finish any material before masking it. I also often put a quick coat on bottom of mdf to make it hold better on vac table. I have had good luck with Gerber Mask II on shellaced mdf, and have now got a box of a cheaper mask that was mentioned recently on the forum to try. Will let you know how it works when I get some experience with it. After you cut though the mask, put a coat of shellac on the cut edges to seal before painting.

[jhicks]

Robert, how big is it? You could easily make it from Black & White color core, cut and ship. Last I checked 1/4" color core runs about $5.00/ sq ft.
Might also lay up your own 2 color substrate in Sintra or PVC, take top layer of lets say 1/8" black and bottom of 1/8" or 1/4" white, then simply nest and carve away for maximum yield.
I think sintra is about $50.00/ 4' x 8' sheet.
Maybe even mask and run in black material then just spray the white areas.