Vacuum and VERY small pieces...

[jeff_rowley]

I do a lot of very detailed inlay work and am working with tiny pieces. I do most of my cutting with a 1/32" bit. In a lot of cases the pieces are a letter with a font size of maybe 1/2" square, but a line width of only 1/16"-1/8". I currently use double sided tape to hold these down. However, tape can add up fast, and sometimes it breaks the parts when trying to get them back up off of the tape. Other times the part doesn't stick and goes spinning off into the void (hopefully this will be less of an issue with my new air deflector ;) ). Tabbing isn't much of an option either, as the tabs would be about as big as major features on these parts and too hard to remove entirely for 'zero line' inlays.

I was wondering about the feasibility of creating a vacuum mask for use with my Fein to hold these down. However, it seems like I read that even the sheet gasketing recommends at least .2" of offset around the cut. Many of the pieces aren't even that wide. Does anyone think that there is any way to hold down parts this small with vacuum, or should I give up and just get busy with the tape?

[tuck]

IMO, just get busy with the tape, dude. ;-)

I do know how to make tabs about as small as you need them, but I'm not sure if it would work in this instance. What kind of material are we talking about, and how thick?

[mziegler]

Jeff, I have done letters and numbers almost that small. Font size of ¾ square with a line width of .080 to .130 that was cut out with a 1/8 bit. With a 1/32 bit you should be able go much smaller than that. Forget about use vacuum, tabbing or tape on parts this small. I would resaw the letters on a table saw or band saw. Also an edge sander works good to release the letters. I think edge and belt sanders was mention on forum for making small parts. Another method is split turnings and that also was talk about on the forum before. Mark

[gerald_d]

I reckon that pursuing vacuum on components that are only 1/16" to 1/8" wide would be a waste of time and grey hairs. We've had some luck using brushed-on contact glue and scraping the parts off later. The glue contamination was not an issue with those inlays.

[jeff_rowley]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I figured it was wishful thinking. I'm mostly cutting them in 1/8" thick hardwood (walnut, on the current batch).

I thought about trying to cut them into the block and then resawing on the bandsaw as suggested, I'll maybe have to give that a try. Only reason I haven't yet, is that I was afraid of losing parts. I've got an apostrophe in the current pattern that's only about 3/32" square.

Thanks again!

[tuck]

Man, Jeff, that's some tiny stuff indeed. Normally, letters THAT small are cut out of vinyl on a plotter. Lawd have mercy!!! A 1/32" bit??? Get out of town! :-0 I hope these letters are for an interior application, because they will never hold up for very long outside. Not out of even the HARDEST wood.

You might experiment with some spray adhesive, available at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. If it holds fast for the cuts, it will then release with laquer thinner. Good luck, man.

[tuck]

You know, the more I think about this, I just wanna tell you Jeff that what you are doing (trying to do), is just too dang small for CNC work, in my humble experience of 4 years.

I recently turned down a job (and about $800.00) to cut some tiny parts like what you're talking about out of 1/8" cast acrylic. When the customer sent me the file, I looked at it and replied; "Thanks, but no thanks." Gerald_D is onto something,... talking about a "waste of time and grey hairs".

An apostrophe 3/32" square!?!? Get outta town! At the very best, that kind of stuff is for ENGRAVING, not cut-out parts.

[Red (Unregistered Guest)]

Not to jump the track or anything, but for extremely small cuts many people use engraving, cnc mills, or even laser.

I'm assuming this small a cut wont be 3D.

[dingwall]

Jeff, I think your best bet is to use a relatively hard glue like Titebond or Hide Glue, or possibly even un-thinned lacquer. Cut your parts then soak the parts and backer board in a solvent that will disolve the glue but not swell the inlay material. We do something similar with pearl inlays and they pop right off.

A second option would be to try gluing your material to a rigid foam backer and disolving the foam afterwords with acetone or lacquer thinner.

[Nic (Unregistered Guest)]

you can try hot meltglue and put it in freeser for release

[jeff_rowley]

Thanks Sheldon, I like the foam backer idea, plus it's so much fun to melt foam into 'goo' ;)

Forunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), this isn't my main job, so I get to play around with this stuff that could never fly in a 'production' environment as more of a hobby. To tell the truth, this is certainly do-able with the tape, I'm just always looking for a 'better' way.

The current project is 15 cribbage boards for a private country club up in Coeur d'Alene (the above-mentioned apostrophe comes in there...) They're made out of laminated walnut, cherry and maple, and have the club logo inlaid in walnut. I'm getting about 3x my cost of materials for each, so I can afford to mess around a bit with something that may be too time consuming normally.

I'm also doing some inlay work on a custom p0ker (odd word to ban from the forum?) table that I am building. It has kind of an Old West flavor and an 'Oulaw P0ker' theme. It has wanted posters of Billy the Kid, Butch Cassidy, etc. inlaid into each seat position. The wanted posters are all done with walnut inlaid into birch. Those have some really intricate parts.

I'll try to get some pictures and post them when I get home tonight.

[gerald_d]

The word p0ker is probably banned because there is a spamming robot that tries to make posts on this type of forum that promotes on-line p0ker games. ref. (http://support.discusware.com/forum/messages/4149/25250.html)

[stevem]

Jeff, have you tried a pressue foot to keep the parts pressed against the table. A well designed pressure foot, with the material resting on a non slippery substrate such as rubber sheet, might work for you.

I have cut parts as small as 5/8" dia. from 3/8" thick Lexan by cutting down to the protective plastic film. The material was held by clamps at the edges and the parts were kept from flying off by the plastic film.

[mziegler]

There some very interesting ideas above about glue, tape, foam and pressure foot. I have try the tape method, but not on parts this small, and also try the split turnings method which use glue. The split turnings is doable but I care for because it use glue - messy and time consuming. The resaw method you can cut out the whole 26 letter alphabet in about two minutes on the table saw. I will try to post some pictures later day of numbers that I have made. Mark

[gerald_d]

1/2" high letters on a table saw? When last did you count on your fingers?

[mrdovey]

Jeff...

Rick Hutcheson, one of the local scrollsaw guys, has been routing (and milling) tiny stuff on a benchtop CNC router using a shop-built vacuum fixture. He might be willing to share DXF files of it with you. It's pretty slick.

You can get a look at some of the stuff he's done on his web site (http://www.scrollsaws.com/CNC/cnc_router.htm) to see if it compares with what you're wanting to do.

...Morris

[mziegler]

Sorry it took this long too post this, took me awhile too relearn how to post pictures. The 48 is ¾“ high and cut with 1/8 bit. I use Insigna to nest many numbers in a 2 ½” by 6 to 12” area with 1/8” spacing between letters. Use nails to fasten the board to the spoil board. It was resaw from pine.



5026

The 25 is made of oak. It was resaw on a table saw.


5027

[mziegler]

The SYC is ¾ to 7/8 tall with line width of .090 to .110. Resaw from ¾” MFD board.


5028

The 25 is 2 ½” high with line width of .075 to .110. This cut with ¼” bit as you can see the bit radius in corners of the 2 and 5. With a smaller bit you can get sharper inside corners but it would take long time to cut. I think the feed rate was 100 ipm. It was remove with a chisel. Numbers this tall, narrow and thin are very very very fragile. Mark


5029

[zeykr]

Mark, can we see a finished project. I'm interested in how you are using these.

[grandpaspastime]

I am in serious need for a Cribbage Board plan to complete for a 50th anniversary gift for a friend. I don't have time to get it laid out and tested. Any one have a file the would share. appreciate any support available

[jeff_rowley]

Dale, I could send you a basic cribbage board, but I'm not sure how much good it would do you. It's basically a 4.5x16" rectangle with straight blocks of 60 holes down either side. It's really pretty boring without all of the inlay work that goes with it. I'll send it to you tonight when I get home.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions in getting my inlay pieces cut. I did them yesterday. I just cut them into the block of walnut and then resawed them on the bandsaw. It actually worked amazingly well. The parts turned out beautifully with no damage at all. Of the 240+ parts that I cut, I'm missing two "l's" and one apostrophe. I think I lost them on the first run, before I knew what I was looking for. They were so small they looked like splinters or scrap.

[nappy1]

Jeff try this. Start out with a box 12" x 12" x 2" deep. on top place a non purous board. Cut a 2" hole in the center and place over that a very purous board and tape the edges of it. In reality you have created an area the size of the hose end on your vac. Of course connect your vac to the box.

[dingwall]

One thing you could try when bandsawing off the parts is tape off the face with masking or duct tape. When when you're done your cut there's a good chance the parts will be stuck to the tape or at least contained within the recess.