What do y'all think of this for planing?

[johnm]

Folks -

This caught my eye at Woodcraft - it's a "safety planer" for use in a drill press. It has 3 carbide cutters and can operate at 3,000 to 6,000 RPM.

Here's the link:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?DeptID=2171&FamilyID=3189

My machine has a spindle, and this seems like it would be a good way to surface the spoilboard quickly as well as use the 'Bot as a defacto planer for thin stock at a faster rate than the typical ~ 1" wide straight planer bit.

I am not sure what feed speeds I'd use, but certainly on the low side of things. What do you y'all think?

John Moorhead


5195

[gerald_d]

It is not a good idea to put things designed for slow drill-presses into fast routers or spindles. There is a very good reason why the planing bit used by ShopBotters is the typically only 1" wide...it has to do with "explosion" due to centrifugal force......

[rhfurniture]

I agree Gerald. I use a carbitool cutter and am very pleased with it. 55mm dia cut, 1/2" shank, runs at 15k a treat:
http://www.datapowertools.co.uk/acatalog/Surface_planers__r3_5512_1_2_.html

R.

[gerald_d]

rh, you mean that you are turning that thing at 15000rpm? That is about 100 mile per hour tip speed. I hope they did their quality control checks on the little screws that stop the bullets from flying off!

But you probably mean 1500 rpm and not 15000 rpm, don't you?

[mikejohn]

55mm diameter.
50MPH at the tip.
Compared to 11MPH for a 1" diameter bit.

[gerald_d]

Mike, cirumference = 2.p.r or p.d
I think you forgot the 2. How can halving the diameter reduce the speed 4 times?

From this (http://www.msu.edu/~venkata1/gforce.htm) g-force calculator, John's Woodcraft planer at 6000 rpm will create 1200 G's force, rh's datapower at 15000 will create 7000 G's. rh must be talking of 1500 rpm (700 G's), otherwise I don't want to be his neighbour!

To understand the relevance of g-force over here, it means that the screw holding on the tip will experience the weight of holding 1200 tips or 7000/700 tips.

[mikejohn]

Gerald
I'm to embarrased to say what I did

This from someone who spent his previous life doing spherical trig!!
The snow has frozen my brain!
.................Mike

[paco]

Her-Saf make thoses "Dual Positive Stop Insert Cutters" which some are quite large (up to 2-1/2" CED); they are about half the price of the similar Onsrud "surfacer". Her-Saf pretend that a 1-7/8" CED tool rtotate at 18000 RPM at feed of 1,200 inches per minute, .030" surface depth give a "finished surface was as smooth as if it had been hand sanded." It's at http://www.hersaf.com/cutters06.html

[johnm]

Folks -

Okay, I certainly understand about spinning the planer bit too fast, but with a spindle, I can slow it down to the recommended 3,000 to 6,000 RPM - so what difference would it make if it was in a drill press or spindle?

Lemme know what you think - I might put this on my Christmas list if y'all think it's a go.

I'll check out those other cutters too...

Thanks!

John Moorhead

[rhfurniture]

Gerald,
OK 15K would be a bit fast, but it is well balanced and well made. Comparing with my regular 6" RT groovers for the spindle which are rated up to 7K (this gives 4100G on your calculator) is comparable with the 12k I usually run it at, and it gives a lovely finish (I use it to skim 2mm bandsawn veneers). Mind you Titman's very similar tool is rated to 16Kmax, and the carbitool catalogue states 16k for that diameter (though not specifically RT)
If you want tales of flying steel mind, ...... (do you remember the old square blocks).

R.

[gerald_d]

John, I don't know if your spindle is happy to take a big load at the relatively low (for a spindle) speed of only 6000rpm. Watch for overheating. It would be like trying to drive up a hill at 30 mph in top gear.

Mike, you did take the area (r2) didn't you?


rh, and everyone else, I just wanted to caution the casual, uninformed lurker that we are in potentially lethal territory here. Most of you do know the risks, but not everyone does.

[johnm]

Gerald -

Are you speaking of overheating the cutters or the spindle motor itself? I have and use an infrared thermometer and understand that the cutters themselves should be kept under what, 140 deg - or is it less? So far, I haven't even broke 100 deg with my new, limited use (we've made two signs and surfaced the table)

What temperature should I keep the spindle under??

Thanks!

John Moorhead

[ron brown]

John,

I think all who replied don't believe it is a good idea to use a tool designed for hand feed in a slow speed drill press in a spindle with automated feed.

So, to answer the question, "What temperature should I keep the spindle under??" With one of those crazy things on it - I would state below room temperature.

Purchase a good, indexable, carbide bit as Paco suggested - I like Her-Saf also, and use that. There are 4 'edges' on each $3.50 Her-Saf insert bit. The sizes over a inch or so use 2 bits so replacing damged edges is $1.75 and takes less than 5 minutes.

I don't have a manual on the spindle but, I'll bet there are some recommendations in the manual as beakin if there are some.

Ron

[gerald_d]

John, it is the actual spindle overheating that will be a problem if you drive it too hard at this low speed. Realise that a 5HP spindle will maybe give 2.5HP at less than half its rated speed.

An infrared thermometer is not an X-Ray machine - it can only "see" the temperature of the outside surfaces. The real hot spots are inside the spindle, and they will be hotter than what an infra-red thermometer can "see". You could burn out the windings before you detect anything on the outside.

Theoretically, the fastest planing can be done while your spindle is delivering peak HP. That is probably around 18000rpm. The biggest (safe) bit for 18000rpm would probably be around 1.5" to under 2" max. Rather use a higher move speed with a smaller bit.

Edited to add:

Cross-posted with Ron. I can't even imagine wanting to handfeed something under that cutter in a drill-press!

[richards]

John,
Check out the Freud 16-108 cutter from www.routerbitworld.com (http://www.routerbitworld.com). It works well for me. I run it at 12,000 RPM when I skim off about 0.0125 inches, or so, to resurface the spoil board. A feed speed of 10-12 ips works great.

One note of caution: You have to ramp the cutter into the material unless you go to depth at the side of the material. The cutting edges don't extend clear across the bottom of the cutter.

[bleeth]

I've been using the same Whiteside 1 1/4" Mortising bit for surfacing the board for near three years now. Reasonably priced and does a great job. I generally run it at 12k and 2ips on mdf.

Dave

[Bob Garrish (Unregistered Guest)]

I use the Wagner Safe-T planer (which is what that is) in my drill press and also in a milling machine. It's a wonderful tool if you keep it sharp and set your feed rate correctly. You should, of course, keep within the recommended RPMs.

Those little teeth aren't going anywhere - they're held in with some very sturdy (vertical) set-screws, but the amount of rotational force at higher RPMs is probably tough on the tool shank itself.

As for utility, it'll cut figured boards down to thicknesses of 2mm (<0.1") without tearout (as it cuts sideways, not top-down) but it does leave little tool marks which will need a quick sanding to remove. It's also really quick to resharpen with the included sharpening disk.